Well, so does the 37mm.
And then there’s the MK 103 which fires even faster and one shots pretty much any plane with Mineshells.
Which of course shouldn’t be the case unless it’s a single engined fighter.
The 50mm is of course pretty much overkill against anything but the largest bombers.
For which R4M rockets do just fine. Not that we ever need those in WT unless we get like AI B-17s or B-29s.
When the video was made it was entirely possible to survive multiple hits of MK.108 to the wings. They were very temperamental a long time ago. Sometimes they would do no damage.
Literally just this. No engine from 37mm hit. Do lazy porpoise dodge and successfully glide back to base. This was status of the game 7 year ago.
Damage was low enough that Adams go-to defensive maneuver was to cut throttle and just lazily roll around and wait for opponent to fly past him. That was considered the peak of defensive flying 8 years ago because short of quad cannon or MG.151 you would probably not take any significant damage.
Maybe just skill issue?
It wouldn’t have been hard to just spray him with the 12.7mm and then hit him with the cannon after a while.
They completely failed to just stick to his six most of the time.
But also why should they bother chasing him down?
There are plenty of cases where an enemy can escape a fight by just diving away and you can either stick to him or find a higher priority target.
It doesn’t matter that much, if you have a better plane when you have to fight multiple enemies at once.
Also, when using Wyvern during “all HE sucks sans MG151/20” I was just killing Germans with AP, because, guess what, having A TON better range still matters. And to this day I will happily head-on German planes because I can fire from way outside their range.
But God forbid if German players had damage advantage!!!
This is the example of highly skilled gameplay that extra tanky damage models enabled. Adam was considered to be one of the best RB players at the time as well.
Look at any old YouTube tactics video from Green Fury etc and they basically just fly in front of people’s guns and hope to not get hit. And if they do get hit they often times don’t take significant damage to matter.
Top town stall traps work a lot better when you know even if the other guy hits you while going zero airspeed that his guns probably won’t hurt you enough to matter. And then it’s easy kill for MG.151 mobile because it has the only guns that can kill in one pass.
The last time I saw Green Fury in a game he ended up wasting everyone’s time by airfield camping until the timer run out.
You’re always pretending that unless a 20mm kills a plane in one hit or a 12.7mm in 2-3, the whole game is going to get worse because it’s unfair when you hit someone and they don’t end up dying.
Idk, is it unfair that a P-47 is supposed to not explode the moment it gets shot by a Bf 109 F-4, with a single 20mm?
We’ve already had periods of the game where there was much higher variance and unreliability in gun damage. Guess what happened? Planes like Yak-3U went to 5.3BR purely due to poor gun damage and would have likely went down even further.
Do you think fighting Yak-3Us with an F6F-5N would be fun? I have done it multiple times and I personally don’t care for it.
oh geez idk, maybe if said example of old shvak users actually loaded AP-I for once, and also because at least personally, want to see the “TNT equivalent” text matter, instead of looking at caliber
and F6F-5N would need to come down before and after 20mil rework.
, it is a 3.7 plane.
I feel like so, that would be a result of a 30mil and up round and not 20mil, including the “wunderwaffe” Mine round.
With all due respect the pilots trying to kill him barely even hit him, as for the Yak-9T I can show quite a few forum threads from back then with people complaining about it and its “OP Fridge launcher”. There’s a chance that the Yak was using default belts and he was hit with an AP round. It still killed his engine.
In your previous video about the Yak-3U it also disproves your point about how “bad” things were back then. He literally saws an elevator off in one pass almost immediately afterwards and then one-burst kills another aircraft with a sustained burst.
Also isn’t it refreshing actually having a chance to glide back home instead of having your tail ripped clean off instantly?
With a 5% hit chance, it would take on average 1.5 hits with the 37mm and 7.3 hits with the ShVAK or B-20 to bring down an aircraft.
Pretty much as you would expect.
A single 20mm to the pilot takes a plane out but hits against the tail or wings might end up with a plane still airworthy.
The 20mm API has some pretty lackluster penetration against spaced armor arrays, as due to it’s construction it becomes unstable, only able to penetrate 7mm of armor at 100m when passing through the fuselage, while a 20mm Hispano AP or SAPI would be able to kill a pilot even from 300-400m.
Even Hispano Practice shells would be more effective.
The value might be a bit too static, as it really comes down to luck, how the shell impacts the armor plate after becoming unstable but it’s clear that it’s not ideal.
The Yak-9UT and Yak-3P can also equip some pretty strong firepower with 2x20mm + either 23mm or 37mm. Which in WT is completels useless to have but would make a night and day difference, if damage was more realistic.
I’ve hit people a lot more than 4 times and they still had their wings.
All the planes I mentioned are from the same nation and will have the same players.
And what made this plane specifically be moved up to 5.3?
Too bad it’s a fighter, so you’re matched against and expected to fight another fighter.
“no real benefit” but all the planes with more firepower are higher.
Yes, because that’s a clear indication the enemy cannot fly off back to base and is out of the match. Anything less is just making them go away for a few minutes
Why would you need twice the ammo if one or two 20mm shells will (according to you guys) detach a tail or wing 100% of the time? It has 200rds, that’s 100 kills. The enemy team only has 16 players.
the “nuke bullets” in question, that can “disable someone with a single bullet”:
They were nerfed… some time ago. Right about when the IAI lost its tracer.
And unless you are out of speed, out of altitude, or your wings are mostly blacked out, you can still glide over to the airfield and get back into the match in a few minutes.
And I’ve shot tanks with 200mm pen that had 25mm side armor and non penned, what’s your point?
I just clicked one time, a Bf 110 was killed, clicked another time, another was killed.
Then the third had me click three times on him. Oh no.
Right, because all vehicles are played equally by the same people. lol
To bad designation don’t matter. It’s 5.3 because it’s a Zero and people let them get shot by it.
What’s even your point you’re trying to make here?
And I already commented on it. So go look up my answer.
My previous comment also had nothing to do with the game or the video you shared but the actual survivability of the actual plane.
Which people really like to brand as propaganda and “hey if the IL-2 was so surivable, why did the Germans destroy 100.000 of them??”.
Wellcome to the reality of air planes getting shot.
You really like to throw out those accuracy numbers like they mean anything.
The point isn’t that you NEED a lot of cannons to get kills, it’s simply about how effective one cannon already is in killing a plane.
Two pairs of 20mm with seperate ballistics simply give you more chances you are going to hit.
If you have perfect aim, the second pair of cannons is basically useless, but if not then it gives you an advantage in being able to kill a target.
More guns always increases the hit chance on average. Likewise bigger cannons should give you better kill chance, if you hit with them.
There’s simply no point in trading a ShVAK for a NS-23 but more cannons or more ammo are always helpful in being able to get kills.
They will still rip a wing hitting it two or three times, which is insane for being a .50cal bullet with better ballistic than a cannon.
I don’t give a damn.
May Gaijin give you the kill, if you wreck a plane that hard, or make it unable to fully repair.
I take that any day of the week than having a lucky hit rip my plane to pieces, by a high RoF cannon that has no right to hit so hard.
If I get hit by a 37mm, I certainly won’t complain, if my fighter falls out of the sky but it’s still non sense when it one taps even the largest bombers.
Cap we get it, Japan will become even shittier, but attack gaijin and not the german main wishing for the triple TNT equivalent to matter.
You are doing the equivalent of a peasant stabbing another peasant because the feudal lord took his home.
Why would an otherwise worse A6M5 be at a higher BR just because it has more firepower, which in your mind has “no real benefit” as it already had two OP cannons?
Welcome to the game known as “War Thunder”.
Already do.
How would that work if their velocity is much lower? You are hitting with only one pair at a time.
The only benefit is deeper magazines but we’ve already established that 200rds is enough to wipe the lobby five times over and you’ll still have ammo to spare. So you are going up 0.7BR and getting a heavier plane for - in your mind - zero advantages?
We had this for a short time. Guess what - nobody liked it either. You sure like all these extremely unpopular gameplay features.
These posts are not about japan specifically. It is simply a useful nation because they are the only ones who put good 30mm cannons in single engine fighters. They are also one of the few nations that increased cannon count in otherwise identical or very similar aircraft.
I wager it’d actually get better, because then you can just fly in front of the enemy to reverse them and take, apparently, minimal damage. It’s not like they can dump 20 shells into any one spot on your plane before you get away from their nose.
Oh, and that triple explosive filler comes at the cost of much weaker fragmentation damage.
The peasant is trying to increase taxes on everyone (but himself) because he doesn’t like that everyone’s fences are the same.
Yeah, but none that make sense.
It works because with perfect aim you hit with one pair of cannons that are going to kill planes 10 times more easily than in reality.
Only when you overlead, you might still hit with the second pair of cannons, that inflict exactly the same amount of damage.
So more guns, especially with different velocity, give you a higher chance to score hits.
Thats nothing new as people have always complained about getting hits with cannons when they actually hit with LMGs or HMGs.
But the better of a shot you are, the less of an advantage are more cannons over better flight performance.
Fact is it doesn’t matter what skill you have when your plane gets outperformed.
But for the average player getting kills has much more impact than using the plane to not get outperformed by worse planes.
So apparently you happen to have the most popular opinion that most playes share? Right.
Maybe it’s more popular but I don’t care.
That WT gets more casual the more popular it gets is just natural. As casual games, attract the most players.
But if I want dumb arcade mechanics I could play WoWp.
My order of priories is:
Fragmentation that doesn’t play any role because fragments actually cause massive structural damage, unlike explosive filler.
Maybe IF fragmentation shells are not simply reskinned behind everyone’s back
Only real “fragmentation round” is mg151/20 FI-T
Average “F” round (reskinned)
VS a REAL frag round
Idiots can’t tell apart yellow rounds based on label because they don’t want to read.
So game was tweaked in their favour.
he wants everyone taxes to go up because they have been living off him
lol
I just know what the majority wants to see when they shoot and hit someone with cannons. Pretty simple.
Like a borderline hitpoints system where you need to get a certain number of hits, otherwise your damage does nothing?
So it does play a role. Or was FeetPics REALLY right when he said what you want is that everyone should need more shots to kill except germany?
Isn’t that one of the few shells that hasn’t been updated to RealShatter? Since RS greatly cut down on fragment count and added random dispersion/spread.
How has anyone been living off of him, in this analogy, if german 20mm HE was the only one that actually worked for years and years? It was only mediocre for a pretty short time, but every cannon has been through this.
In fact, MG151s have the advantage right now over most due to their above average RPM and still fantastic damage.
Is it really so hard to understand that Mineshells deal major structural damage compared to explosive shells?
They have worse ballistics so you need to get closer to even hit a plane and their main advantage is that they are more reliable, the smaller a plane is.
They have literally no advantage against large bombers that simply have too much structure to damage, compared to fragmentation shells that can damage a bombers fuel tank much more easily.
Fragmentation shells also can easily damage a fighters cooling system, engine or pilot at much longer ranges.
The MG 151/20 has three advantages:
They beat ShVAKs at everything other than RoF and ballistics, they are beaten severely by Hispanos ballistics and effectiveness of its AP and SAPI, while generally having more ammo.
23mm explosive shells already should be better than 20mm Mineshells, dealing almost as much structural damage with a stronger fragmentation effect than 20mm shells.
Ballistically the NS-23 is nearly identical to the MG 151/20, except for having better range due to heavier shells.
And Hispano 20mm HEFI, with 130g shells with 11.3g explosive-incendiary filler and higher velocity are already much better than ShVAK shells weighing 96g with 5.6g filler.
The Hispano MK V beats out MG 151/20 in everything other than the pure structural damage of Mineshells, which are way harder to hit with.
With the current system 20mm ShVAKs are more capable at killing planes than 23mm, because the damage difference, which should be massive, hardly matters, while they have better ballistics, RoF and a larger ammo pool.
So you get less ammo but can’t even get the same amount of kills, since you’re hitting far less to make up for the loss in ammo carried with the 23mm.
Right now you don’t need 2-3 MG 151/20 because Mineshells are so lethal that they
And yes, 20mm Mineshells are going to need less hits to kill than ShVAKs, which should be obvious from the fact that it’s a 92g shell with 18.7g filler vs 96g shell with 5.6g filler. And less hits than Hispano HEFI, given the fact that more area of a fighter is going to be susceptible from the blast damage than fragmentation.
But you’re also going to make more hits with ShVAKS, and especially with Hispanos.
Which also was the main complaint before the 20mm Mineshell buff, that they were made redundant by shells with better ballistics that were just as lethal.
Still, they aren’t going to one shot planes like they do right now, and a single MG 151/20 should make you wish for more firepower at times.
And Hispanos are going to be universally better than MG 151/20, other than carrying less ammo most of the time.
They can just insta kill the pilot if you land your rounds on the side of a fuselage
