But my Ho-155s are onetapping even jets. There’s lots of 50mm 262s at this BR and 20mms don’t always kill them in one hit, even if you have four cannons.
This should change, but we should also NEVER have a case where someone can sit in front of your guns and keep flying unopposed.
How does it not? 20mm did not black out the wing section and did not damage the fuel tanks next to it. 30mm did both. Against the J5N it even reached over, blacked the center fuselage, and damaged the pilot.
In the case of the only two fighters that carry the Ho-155, you do so in addition to the 20mm cannons. There is no downside.
In the case of the Type 5, there is only one premium plane with just two of them, and it is lower than the models with four 20mm cannons. The J7W1 has four and you’ll notice it does not struggle with shooting down things if you can actually get your nose on target.
The benefit is that I hit someone once and they’re basically out of the fight already. By the way I’m only using Japan as reference because I have experience with them, and they offer the greatest variety of 30mm cannons in fighters instead of saddling you with the terrible MK108.
Menawhile, the 30mms cannons that offer “no benefit” over 20mms:
If J7W1 had 20mils instead the story wouldn’t see much difference, except poorer ballistics but improved ammo pool and firerate.
Still wouldn’t hold it’s own at 6.0 lmao, how are players losing to the 1 japanese plane they can reliably outturn and catch.
There’s also the mk-103 and rare mk-101 but last wouldn’t count.
Mk-103 is the closest to your japanese 30mils
The 20mil would have already landed 2 rounds in there and blown the section off, 20mils have superior firerate remember? Except in cases where said cannon has an extra long barrel, usually 20mils come in pairs so it is negated.
(Type 99 model 2 would eat a lot of crap if cannon damage is correctly differenciated)
(longer barrels usually improve muzzle velocity and accuracy but sacrifice firerate, thats why the Mk-108 can fire at 600 rpm despite being a larger caliber unlike Mk-103 at 450 or Type 5 at 500)
The MK 108 is terrible because it’s completely overkill in WT for no benefit.
It fires very large 30mm shells, the Mineshells weighs 330g, while the HEF-T equivalent weighs 440g, which is nearly as much as Japanese 37mm shell for the Ho-203.
The Ho-155 fires 240g shells and the Type 5 350g and both are regular explosive shells.
A P-47 could survive a 30mm Mineshell to the wing but in WT either 30mm blows it right off.
Both Japanese shells are less destructive than the US 37mm. Which faires similar to the 30mm Mineshell, when the attack came from the front, which gave the 37mm a huge kill chance from being able to knock out the engine.
While attacks from behind would be far less effective.
So it’s not terrible but WT damage scaling is terrible.
Or you would otherwise appreciate having shells loaded to the max with explosives.
A Me 262 has four of them when it actually just needs one or two with the same amount of ammo.
It’s a Navy plane, so the 500rpm 30mm cannons would be replaced with 490rpm 20mm cannons. Firerate is identical or worse. So you’re trading more ammo for less damage and worse ballistics.
The issue is that neither are on fighters you’d actually want to ever use. The MK101 is only on a rare event plane and it’s a twin engine attacker, the MK103 is only on fat attackers, fat jets, or the Ta 152 C3 which is the worst of all worlds.
Uh huh.
The AN/M2 and Hispanos aren’t much better at 600rpm.
Would you be so kind as to show me a plane with a single Ho-155 or Type 5? Because as it stands, for the only nation that actually used good 30mm cannons on single engine fighters, swapping either the Ho-5 or Type 99-2 for them is an upgrade in ballistics and damage, and only one type suffers reduced RPM.
It would then be a good time to get upgraded Type 99 cannons - Type 99 Model 4 increased RPM to 620, and Model 5 to 750.
Overkill except when it comes to actually hitting things, which is why nobody uses them. We’ve gone through this already.
Type 5 is ~35kg heavier than Type 99. I don’t know how much the ammo is. That’s negligible on a ~3 ton plane.
You keep dodging the question. The question is very simple.
Do you think the chance of .50 cals causing a fire is currently realistic or unrealistic? Because this factor affects how everything else’s fire chance is changed in relation.
I.E we can reduce 50 caliber fire chance by a factory of 2 and keep 20mm fire chance the same. Now all of a sudden the fire chance for 20mm cannons is unchanged and fire chance for .50 cals is significantly reduced.
But in the past what you and others have hinted at is that fire chance in game is also vastly over-estimated and therefore basically needs to be reduced across the board with .50 cals being hit the most severely.
I also don’t see any compelling reason that fires caused by 20mm shells would be more lethal in-game than fires caused by 50 cals. A couple hundred gallons of
So is 1 shot per cylinder a reasonable set of damage? Or 1/2 shot per cylinder to account for over penetration? Currently 1-2 .50 cals can disable a 12 cylinder engine.
If we follow this logic then at a minimum we should triple the current durability of engines and require 6 shots of .50 calibee vs 1-2.
That would be more realistic would it not? And realism is the only thing we care about for the sake of our
Why do you think bullets would have twice the kinetic energy when fired from the head-on? Just pause for a second and think about the claim that you are making.
The closure rate of the aircraft is not a large factor in the penetration ability of a .50 cal. The propeller driven aircraft in most cases is not going to be traveling at high enough speed to double the kinetic energy of the projectile.
I also think you failed to read my previous post. German cannons should be the only thing to realistically kill from the head on. At worst a .50 cal might destroy some part of the engine.
We also said we weren’t concerned about the variation between how WarThunder handles intermediate damage or how airfields are positioned.
A Bf.109 or FW-190 without an engine in-game can glide around 15km for every 1km of altitude. A little further if you feather the prop.
Basically in pretty much any kind of damage condition short of wings being gone it is easily possible to RTB during an Air RB match. If I head-on a guy at 3km at the start of the match…as long as I am within 45km of my airfield then I can feasibly RTB without an engine. Even with wind damage…if I am within 30km then I am still safe. This is also assuming engine damage isn’t just partial horsepower reduction.
So how does game not turn into plane effectively being damage sponges for one side? Which is what we have had in the past.
LMAO, I’ve shot hundreds of jets with Ta’s 30mm, and the most common result is “hit”, or sometimes critical, as they happily tank a 30mm to the nose or tail, actually can tank a few.
One shotting jets?
Absolutely not.
And while damage in this game is pure BS, Ho-155 does NOT hit harder than MK108.
And with 20mm even at same ROF, you would have 150-180 instead of 60 rounds per gun. Triple firing time meaning you can be a lot more liberal with trigger, which actually helps immensely. Sure as hell it helped my Wyvern in the past.
20mm situation also hurts all Soviet medium velocity 23 and 37mm equipped fighters, because what’s the damn point?
And anything with more than 2 cannons, as even with 2 you only need some time on target if you catch the API/APHE part of the Stealth belt for MG151/20
It means for the same weight you can have two Type 99 and more ammo.
Which makes them pointless.
Nobody used them because they are pointless.
You don’t need to hit a B-17 5 times with 30mm HEI-T and you don’t need to hit it 20 times with 20mm HEI.
That makes it pointless. They don’t give you more firepower because 20mm already give you all the firepower you need and Japanese 30mm are as lethal, when they shouldn’t.
The MK 108 doesn’t hit four times as hard as 20mm Mineshells, which by all logic should hit harder than 20mm Oerlikon/Hispano shells.
So MK 108 HEI-T doesn’t hit as hard as 6 regular 20mm explosive shells, which means they don’t have any advantage worth using.
Please explain it to us. Do you think the closing velocity of the aircraft are going to double the kinetic energy? Because if that is the case I don’t think you know how ballistics or drag worm.
Type 99 model 1 already has a poor firerate, in the path of seeking better accuracy and ballistics, IJN accepted to sacrificed more firerate.
Still comes in double the quantity
I feel like you are defending the sheer powecreep in terms damage not only from 20mm to +30mm armaments, but also because some 20mils already powercreep themselves.
ShVAK and Type 99 would be the most affected because they are the one that are punching way above their capabilities.
I understand Japan is the victim of sheer incompetence by BR balancing, but you can’t hold back and entire rework because you are not ready to accept that Japan will have another downside.
Other 20mil will also come down, There is no excuse for one mg151/20 to blow off a P-38’s tail clean off.
IF the 20mil has 3 crumbs of TNT equivalents is unfortunate, time to push for BR reductions instead of homogenize every 20mil into a german 20mm, with no regard for even simple math or differences in shell functionality (fragmentation vs high explosive)
You will have german mains complaining, because the current system nullifies the damage they are supposed to recieve for sacrificing the ballitics of their weapon.
In fact the only one that didn’t crash immediately was the LF, because of the very strong rudder that allowed him to stay in the air. I only hit his wingtip but most of his wing was destroyed.
I got two more last night.
Which is irrelevant as the main constraint is space. The only plane that does this in-game is the J2M5, but the 30mm premium is lower because it has the older drum-fed guns and nothing else, while in reality it kept the inboard 20mms.
Indeed they are! What’s the point in a gun that can’t hit its targets?
No, I’m against this rework because it’ll make gameplay worse for everyone. This is a game first and foremost. Your rework aims to make any lightly-armed fighter basically harmless.
I already have aircraft that will be barely affected by this like the J6K, it’s still a stupid idea.
…which is BAD because we’ll have planes with incredible performance at far too low BRs.
Dude, seriously, I used to just fire Type 99 Mk2 1 shell at a time and also got tons of one shots.
But still, you are biased as hell and I’m pretty sure you’re not posting countless of examples of Ho-155 failing to seriously damage the target.
I’ve hit so many people with Ostwind 37mm M-geschoss and it’s also NOWHERE close to bring reliable. I’ve hit same A7M1 2 times in one match, each time he was doing fine, he repaired between shot 1 and 2, after he ran out of ammo, LOL.
Kugelblitz also is nowhere close to reliable with dual MK103, and it absolutely sucks vs jets.
Can it one shot?
Yes.
Does it reliably one.shot?
No.
Damage wise, Kugel is not better than single 20mm post war SPAAs, that fire HE at 1100 RPM, while Kugel fires at around 900. The fact Kugel has 5 times the explosive content barely makes any difference. It also gets badly beaten by Skink in this department.
I simply didn’t get that many aircraft to shoot at, and I don’t feel like playing air rb when 6.3 is gonna be hell with jets and superprops running around, that are gonna see “Ki-84” and immediately run away for the next 40km.
The one hit I got with Ho-155 that didn’t take them out was when I just clipped an elevator, and that still blacked out the horizontal stabilizer on that side. But my skill issue in missing the giant plane in front of me is irrelevant here.
After the last cannon buff they went from miserable to really good. Ho-155s sucked badly between RealShatter and whenever that was.
Can’t say I share your experience. When I hit planes they’ve got to be VERY lucky to not be dead instantly.
I’m currently using the French truck with two 20mm cannons for SPAA, and it’s a real aircraft killer. You won’t always kill them on the first hit, but after just a few shots the plane is dead; it’s impressive how easily you can shoot down anything.
I’d say there’s like 20-25% chance of survival vs 37mm, hence Bf 109 F4 tanking 3 or Yak-9 tanking 2 (did not have screenshots of that one).
I generally don’t use Ostwind to shoot at planes to not ragequit because failure to do damage is such a common occurence and Kugel for me is a light/open top tank destroyer with some SPAA capability.
To do the job, high ROF 20mm is generally better.
2 20mm shells ALWAYS beat single 30mm, I’d say 30mm has maybe 35% more damage, which sometimes makes a difference, but usually it doesn’t hence the advantage of high ROF single 20mm over Kugel
I got 5 air kills in a match just now with the Ostwind.
The only ones that weren’t downed in one hit were the FC20 which I hit and took his wingtip out, making him a free target against a friendly fighter; and a second Pe-2 against which I only hit one of the vertical stabilizers and the match ended before he came back around.
Here’s the damage log.
The Ki-43-III and P-63 were hit twice as they were coming straight at me. The FC20 was hit again as I hit his pilot and got “aircraft finished off”.
Yeah let’s not pretend it’s not possible to hit planes with the gun.
There’s is no point because other guns overperform in damage, period.
Who‘s everyone?
The current system makes harder hitting guns worse, because they lose their entire point of existing.
So a plane with two medium velocity 12.7mm being „harmless“ is bad but a plane with a 30mm being harmless because they can’t hit as much and their damage is made irrelevant is ok?
lol
A plane is a weapon platform. If it has weak guns, it’s probably going to be at a BR where it outperforms others to be in the situation where it can fire at them more often then the other way around.
You cry about undertiered planes but in every match there’s going to better performing planes than others.
If everyone has the same guns they only difference is going to be the flight performance.
It simply makes no sense to make small caliber guns much more deadly than in reality.
