Cannons doing too much damge

Oh and 1 more thing.

Current guns are actually way more annoying.

If it takes f.e. 8 Shvak hits to the wing to down a plane, you hit once, nothing happens - even if it’s due to same bug that makes 30 and 37mm do negligible damage - you are fine with it. Hit more, and it’ll work. So non-bugged takes 8, bugged takes 9. Small difference.

But now we buff all the guns to 11.
I fire Shvak at some angle, hit Bf 109 in the rear fuselage just before the stabiliser starts, tail falls off.
But if I hit stabiliser, part of it goes black, nothing happens really.
If I hit the middle of a wing, it snaps.
I hit the flap, flap goes black, I can hit same spot 6 times more and the non-existent flap will just tank it.

See the problem?

Yeah, that’s a gigantic inconsistency.
You hit the enemy and have no idea what to expect.
Guy dies?
Guys is 100% fine?
And fun thing usually there’s not much in-between.

And one has to plan for 1 and done kind of passes to maximize effectiveness. One has to go for extreme short firing opportunities, because one shell is oftentimes enough.
Setting up a kill is pointless, because set-up allows to hit the enemy multiple times, and you don’t need that. So I’m just rolling the dice!
It’s even funnier with Hispanos or MG151/20 because now there’s also the “what shell did I actually land” lottery. If HE part of the belt, dude dies, it AP/SAPI/IT, probably nothing has happened.

At some point I enjoyed Bf 109G6 with MK108, because while MG151/20 was sufficient in the past, the guaranteed (due to pre-real shatter excellent damage pattern of 30mm) effect on enemy aircraft (it was dead or at least crippled almost every time, unless windshield was hit, which I think I mentioned as being a suboptimal way of handling it in the past as IRL pilot survival after 90g of TNT exploding after hitting the windshield would be far from guaranteed) was something I valued.

Nowadays, I get hit and I die. Or I get hit and I casually proceed to dismantle the other guy because the nuke launchers are not consistent.

To sum it up - if 1-shot kill almost never happens
Edit: poor choice of words, should be “rarely happens”
and you know you have to hit multiple times, you don’t feel cheated when your single shot fails.
But when guns are like in WT today - not only I don’t feel an accomplishment when 1 shell connects and kills, I also can’t even predict what happens if I land something, because the effects are so random. I also have to play it super safe, because 1 random shell can ruin my plane.
Or a few random bullets.
The fun part is, people are very aggressively pushing head-ons, because if you don’t dodge every single shell out of a spray, you die.
Funnily enough, oftentimes a few .50 cal bullets will.also remove your aerodynamic ability to actually dogfight, which is hilarious in its own way. I love getting hit in a wingtip when flying Ta-152H by 2 .50 cal bullets and being forced to RTB because the plane keeps rolling to that side and can no longer turn. But hey, why bother fixing aerodynamic damage like ever, if most of in-game weapons make it irrelevant, as your plane disassembles before the aerodynamic damage is a real problem.

BTW, that’s not fooling.
Ripping a wing off with 4 shells (lets say someone get lucky with MG151/20) is a HUGE thing.
Just like a gun that can kill in 4 quick shots in CoD is considered VERY hard hitting. These are autocannons we have, they are low caliber, they are supposed to hit multiple times to destroy the target.
Ripping a wing off should feel like an accomplishment. Currently almost every plane I shoot dies from few issues at once, as losing both wings and tail snd pilot and engine after getting struck with 8 shells is nothing unusual.
But players perceive it as normal, because Gaijin FOOLED THEM into thinking WW2 planes are made of hardened chinesium and brake apart if.you look at them wrong.
It’s exactly like people started to expect armor to do nothing in movies involving ancient to reneissance era melee combat, because in such movies trained soldiers get 1-shot and easily dismantled by main hero, who goes around without helmet.
And it’s not because armored melee combat is not spectacular or brutal. It’s because movie makers convinced the audience it works that way and audience became fine with it and it’s just easier to ignore the existence of armor and go with standard choreography, than to actually pay a few dollars for some expert advice.

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Outclimbed by P-38s and Spitfires

lol, it’s hot trash up high

109 F4 has infinitely better nose authority. You can even see it in your own video.

You mean the middle of his wing isn’t programmed to snap off?
image

image
Even when he’s doing a cobra in front of me?
image

But a single round just does it, according to you?

Except when I or someone else that’s not you uses them.

Like, we’ve gone all over this in your thread. .50s somehow don’t pen or do damage when you use them, but when I or Runa or someone else does, they pierce through the entire enemy plane and come out the other end, damaging everything on the way.

No way, the slow maneuverable plane is good in situations where it can take advantage of its agility and its low top speed is irrelevant!?

It’s not horrible by any means. Aside from a few things, it has never been better. AI ticket bleed has been hugely reduced, XP-50 lost its airspawn, XP-55 was nerfed, Yak-3 moved up, all nations are now playable instead of half of them expending all their ammo just for some pretty fireworks…

Aim for the head.

How is this relevant to WT?

I care far more about gameplay than “I should be able to stand in front of an enemy actively gunning me down because MY cannons have more explosives in them”.
Being rewarded for hitting your enemy is better for gameplay.

Your argument implies that not oneshotting everything would not make the game unpopular. But as it stands, you both can’t oneshot tanks at all (outside of some very specific matchups), AND the game has never been less popular than now. There’s no correlation here.

This has been the state of the game for years, yes. One patch M3s were fantastic, and the next they were hot garbage.

If I had a dollar for every time you guys described the legacy damage system down to the details, but then claimed you don’t want the legacy damage system…

Like they did back in the old days, but with the knowledge that the other guy’s guns straight up could not do enough damage to kill them? At least now you can take damage in return.

How is a crappy FPS relevant to WT?

Do you need me to repost the planes that fell apart from .50cal fire in gun camera footage or can you just scroll up?

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This argument is very similar to the argument that sim players were making about reducing multipathing from 100m to 60m; that even if the change was unpopular or that if it ruined certain aircraft that the player-base would just “adapt” by learning to BVR and notch.

The actual adaptation is not that noobs learned how to fight BVR or that a bunch of new players were attracted to the game mode that was all of a sudden more realistic.

The people that wanted a more realistic game got exactly what they wanted, and multipath was lowered to 60m. Once that was done and a few players learned to notch better than they knew how to, and learned how to force fights on their own terms, the “realism” players then moved the goal posts that notching in game is not realistic enough. There was a period where chaff literally did not work and these players were hailing it as the next great advance in realism for the game.

Guess what happened to these players? They stopped playing the game as soon as “realism” didn’t pan out into them winning as often as they thought that they should.

The other adaptation?

image

The vast majority of players and games still happen on maps where multipathing is the name of the game and where flying at 30m is the move that most PvP players take. The difference is that these players exist in enough numbers to actually support the game existing.

The other difference is that these players don’t immediately nose dive to the nearest AA source like the “realism” crowd will and doesn’t quit the game as soon as a decent player manages to shoot them down.

Literally the 3rd post in this thread is the OP complaining about wing damage…not even wing detachment.

It is no coincidence that this post came out basically a few days after I had shot him down in a sim game with the J2M2. I haven’t seen him play the P-47 D-25 since then either…and that was 2 years ago.

The realistic ideal is to never be able to take enough damage in your boom in zoom plane to not be able to make it back to the airfield. That is what these people basically want.

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Nope. Also you can always aim for the pilot and engine.

It’s an example of how people will not let go off their unfair advantage. It was pretty simple, so why are you acting not-smart?

Stop acting like your IQ is in mid double digits, please.

Well, what kind of gameplay improvements does ABSOLUTE LACK OF GUN BALANCE AND DIVERSITY of damage per shot bring to the table instead of working gun balance like in ALMOST EVERY OTHER SHOOTER GAME EVER RELEASED?

Who ever said hitting your enemy should not be rewarded?

And right now aiming better is not rewarded, if you fire 10 shells and hit 8 or 2 - same effect.
Using heavier guns is not rewarded.
Using bigger plane that is easier to hit is DOUBLE PUNISHED because it brings ABSOLUTE 0 advantage in resistance to gunfire, while the heavier armanent of bigger plane is NOT REWARDED.
Properly setting up your kills is not rewarded as you are wasting time while all you should be going for are 0,1s firing opportunities.

Yup, sounds like 1-shot nuke launchers create more issues than they solve (they solve no issue, that wouldn’t be solved by even mediocre gun balance).

Well, it did not. The game changed in 1000 ways since the days of its glory. It’s barely same WoT I excelled at back in 2012.
But my ENTIRE argument was: weapons in WoT were NOT one-shotting and despite that, the game reached extreme popularit and was great fun. Actually the game started going downhill when Wargaming started to introduce bigger and bigger guns and removing convenient weakspots from the tanks for the sake of “realism”. This resulted in demolition of the standard “tank dueling” model and destroyed heavy armor meta.

It has been the state of some guns at different time periods that caused huge imbalance.
Thing is, it was never difficult to fix, Gaijin just refused to do this.
So now, when the balance is super-broken because all planes almost regardless of size have same “HP” (shown by Do-335 mid-wing going black from 1 Shvak), when every type of ammo but HE is beyond useless, now we somehow should keep it.
And yes, we will keep it because people like you think that “if it’s acceptable to me, no need for it to be actually good”. Which is a horrible attitude and is the reason why there are so many restaurants serving shitty food - because the owner also think “well, it’s good enough by my standards, it’s super-mid, but why bother with making it actually good”. I know a lot of people who treat food and drink like that, so I’m not surprised exact same attitude results in exact same results in gaming.

I described what happens now, what happened before to the lesser extent because YOU WERE NOT EXPECTING TO 1 SHOT PEOPLE, and what SHOULD NOT BE.
New system should be different from everything we had before, as no weapon damage system in WT air battles so far was any good. Quite honestly, they were uninspiring, low effort pieces of shit, but with community being composed of people like you, low effort piece of shit is “good enough” as long as “gun go pew, plane go boom”.

In the past less maneuvrable plane with more guns pushed head-on, while more maneuvrable plane with less guns dodged. It made sense. Planes actually had advantages and disadvantages in gun department, even if these advantages were in some cases TOO EXTREME.
Typical example - Fw 190 A5 going for Yak-3 or Spitfire Mk IX or A6M5.

Nowadays Yak and A6M5 reliably win vs A5 as they are way smaller and have better guns, and so does Spit Mk IX, unless it gets unlucky with SAPI/AP OR convergence shafts him.
Even if 190

A5 gets hit even once, it loses a wing, and if it somehow doesn’t - it’ll be an easy catch even for A6M5 most likely.

And how many times were they hit, what was hit and how often did that happen?
But hey, sure as hell there’s no “survivorship bias” among gun camera footage and you just watched 50 consecutive kills from western theatre chosen randomly and planes breaking apart from 10 bullet impacts was somehow a norm, right?
RIGHT?

Meanwhile, nobody bothers to upload the most boring shit where nothing interesting happens. I mean, we have some boring Luftwaffe gun camera, but that’s just because THAT’S ALL WE GOT, because everything else burned in Dresden.

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Happened at least 3 times in 1944 to the extent that they all showed up on the same propaganda reel. It should also be noted that the AAC did not adopt 20mm cannons during the war and that their effort for a next-generation aircraft gun at the time was centered around a .60 caliber hyper-velocity gun. They didn’t even bother copying the MG.151 to any extent.

AAC actually killed a lot of attempts to arm planes with 20mm cannons during the war as well citing the fact that they didn’t really have the need at the time for a dedicated interceptor / bomber-destroyer.

The Russian’s also ended up standardizing around lighter armament throughout the war; they removed firepower from a lot of their lend lease planes.

P-38 literally can’t do anything against a Ki-44 besides run. Lol.

The ki-44 carries the same amount of horsepower at 4780m as the P-51C whilst being multiple tons lighter. That only switches drastically once the Ki-44 starts hitting 5000m. But at that point. The match is already over and that P-51C wasted all that time climbing that high. So sure… 5000m and above the P-51C outmatches that… But who cares? You’re not going to spend all that time climbing that high because the Ki-44 is already higher than you by almost 1000m before you reach that point.

Ki-44 figures
WTRTI_iOaVaQAN4O

P-51C figures
image

Which video lol.

The Bf-109 F-4’s instantaneous AoA is better by like… Half a degree. better minimum turn radius by like. 4 Meters. That’s not much. Meanwhile the Ki-44 outrates the Bf-109 by a significant margin.

What’s with you and single rounds?

That was literally from last year.

bonus Ki-44 clip

Literally snap both wings off a P-63

Because all you look at is when you get the lucky fire or one shot kill because you got all your rounds to smack a hyper specific target.

But as I’ve shown time and time and time and time again.

They


are
image
inconsistent
image

All these people should’ve caught alight.

That La-5 in the last image is a great example because that was from a great match in the Bearcat where me and another team member clutched the game from a 2 v 8(?) I need to find the replay. He was still a pain in the ass because he wasn’t really missing any flight performance from this. Even when I got good kills, I’m still noticing that I either have to make 2-4 passes on a guy to kill him. Or he just catches alight. There’s no inbetween. There’s no “heavily damaging” him where it makes the secondary pass much easier. Hell, there are times where I grind people into dust and they somehow keep flying. It’s not like cannons where a stray hit will either kill him, or completely cripple him to give me breathing room. Nor is it like the “HE” machine guns of Russia and Japan where just a few hits is extremely dangerous. Everyone I fought I had to make sure they died because I knew I wasn’t causing any significant damage to them until I saw their plane snap a wing, or burst into flames.

Hell, when trying to make my bug report for flame chances for .50 incendiary. Even Kiwi was exasperated by the fact that spars as thin as paper are considered as thick as 20mm of RHA for some reason and this made it difficult to re-enact the tests that were made on He-111 wings since the spars kept eating the rounds, and not only did they eat the rounds; sometimes, they would penetrate, but then ghost through other structures and fuel tanks.

Your main mode of killing your enemy is literally with AP and you’re dealing with buggy ass physics that don’t work so again. Everything is a coin toss.

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Spoiler

oh no you don’t understand!

It’s only “good damage” if it can kill in 0.1 sec + travel time, if I need to sustain lead for more than 1 seconds it is “bad”.

So explosive 12.7mil = bad

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You mean they removed rifle caliber MGs from Hurricanes and replaced them with 12.7mm and 20mm guns? lol

They removed the gun pods on the P-39 because it obviously would cost the plane performance, range and time in the air.
It already had a 37mm that could deliver lethal blows.

Yet they also mounted VYa-23s and NS-37 in LaGGs.

The issue was that those limited the amount of ammo and increased the weight from heavier guns and heavier ammo.

They produced 2500 Yak-9Ts but then on the Yak-9U they went back to the older lighter armament.

Only for the next generation of Yaks and the La-9 to carry much heavier armament, as soon as better, more weight efficient guns become available.

Three US .50cal with API are around as effective as a Hispano Mk II for targeting a fighter.

So your typical US fighter had around the hitting power of a typical mid to late war Spitfire, slightly less.

An engine mounted ShVAK is probably as effective a a single Hispano Mk II, with its higher RoF, but is limited by the low ammo count.

A MG 151/20 would be more lethal to a fighter, firing Mineshells, but also with worse ballistics.

Considering that 7.92mm MGs are mostly useless, a LaGG 3 or Yak with one 20mm ShVAK and one 12.7mm Berezin has around the same firepower as a Bf 109 F-4.

Both are small light fighters with relatively low firepower but in the same ballpark as US fighter with four .50cals.

A Spitfire Mk V offers superior firepower and a P-51 slightly less but with a lot more trigger time.

But .50cals are weight inefficient.

A P-51 D-5s guns and ammo weigh around 420kg.
A Spitfires Mk V or IX around 215kg.
A Bf 109 F-4 around 130kg and a Yak-9s around 130kg as well.
For the G-6 it changes to around 190kg and for the Yak-9U and Yak-3 to 170kg.

Meanwhile empty weight of the aircraft:
P-51 D-5 → 3.85t | Fuel: 0.74t
Spit Mk IX → 3.07t | Fuel: 0.29t
Bf 109 G-6 → 2.92t | Fuel: 0.3t
Yak-9U → 2.8t | Fuel: 0.38t

Heavier armament:
Tempest Mk V: 420kg weapons | Empty: 4.64t | Fuel: 0.43t
Fw 190 A-8: 440kg weapons | Empty: 3.75t | Fuel: 0.41t

So the armament of Soviet fighters is pretty much in line with their smaller size and weight.

Not to mention that you can simply make up a lack of armament by having more aircraft than the enemy. Similiar to how RoF wasn’t seen as an issue with tanks, since twice the tanks with half the RoF are still going to fire as many shots as the enemy.

When realShatter damage was fixed and before 20mm started to get turned into 30mm cannons again, I was still quite capable in killing other fighters using the Yak-3, without having to saw their wing off by hitting them once with all three guns.

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gun damage good when its my guns gun damage bad when its the enemy guns i am very intelligent

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Reducing armament from 4 .50 cals to 2 .50 cals on P-40. So the preference for pure performance and nose mounted armament is not limited to P-39.

All of the 37mm cannons had notable drawbacks.

Note that common theme in Soviet interviews is targeting at ranges that are even closer than what Americans or Germans would consider point blank.

The La-9 did not fly until 1946. The heavier armament was likely driven by a counter-bomber consideration and not a counter-fighter consideration. It should also be noted that the Soviets also liked to use their fighters for strafing ground targets.

And yet when the British requested that the Mustang receive the same armament as the Spitfire, the AAC squashed that suggestion and remained standardized around the .50 caliber armament. In fact the P-51Bs and P-51Cs were armed with only 4 .50 calibers.

The fighter that arguably broke the back of the Luftwaffe starting in late 1943 was only armed with 4x.50 cals.

Adopting 20mm cannons for anti-fighter work was not seen as necessary by the AAC during the war. This was in spite of having multiple on-going cannon projects throughout.

ShVAKs have been good aircraft cannons for around at least 2 years prior to Realshatter implementation. Guess what? The exact same person was still complaining about getting his wing shot off in 1 shot and that ShVAK should be nerfed.

The ShVAK is OP argument goes all the way back to the old forum. I think that prior to that the same people were upset about how effective incendiary rounds in Berezin and .50 caliber were.

This whole argument has been a continually shifting goal posts that basically amounts to German LARPers wanting their pet fighter to be the only relevant one in the game.

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The fighter that broke the back of the Luftwaffe was the P-47 in 1943, it was the mainline U.S. fighter that saw the brunt of the Luftwaffe forces before the P-51 was adopted for an escort role partially due to politics and costs.

Air force kept with .50’s as long as they could due to having not only a large stockpile, but tests showing that, .50’s were in theory more efficient than 20mm’s and matched the 30mm’s in a short burst.

I remember this. .50s in 2014 were literally one shot lights but had absolutely no damage structural damage to them. I remember when they nerfed the flame chances so hard that .50s literally had no capability of killing, so you had people swapping over to ground targets for awhile and you could wind up in fights where a 2-3 second direct burst from someone could still be survivable.

Those days were ass.

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An unfair advantage… oh, like Mineshells being the only shell that truly worked?

Lack of gun balance is what we had when MG151/20s were nuke slingers, Hispanos were called Hisparkos, and we watched an armorless plane tank a dozen shvak shells for no noticeable flight performance decrease. Only one nation being able to play the game properly is not “balance”.

That’s funny, because I was playing the Shiden just now (got a 10 kill match) and having 4 cannons instead of the two in other aircraft definitely felt much better. Especially when I had to quickly ensure a Ju288 died right then and there.

The circumstances of my team sucking basically forced me to wipe out more than half of the enemy team on my own (plus 3 AI Su-6s as a freebie). Thanks to my pretty good accuracy and favoritism for getting close before firing, I had 116 shells left when I made a forced landing right as we won the match.

Now, how many 20mm HEF-T shells do you think is “balanced” and “fair” to take to shoot someone down? Because I’m pretty sure that if you had your way with cannon nerfs, this match would be impossible once you factor in that I’m by no means 100% accurate, and especially since I had to shoot down a P-47, a 190 F-8, and a Ju288 (planes which you’d make extra tanky) and others which I had to ensure died quickly so I could engage the next threat.

And frankly, I’m entirely against reducing the impact of individual players even more after the increase of team size from 12 to 16 already did.

WG removed weakspots because armor became irrelevant at times, especially with gold ammo. Thus the only way to get players to grind, buy, and play new tanks was to offer something better - more DPM, more armor, or more damage are by far the most relevant stats. They did not hold back powercreep, and it has been killing it for years now.

This is different. We are not continuously increasing how much damage guns do, we have leveled the playing field so nations other than germany and usa can enjoy the game.

Funny you say that, because when I died earlier, the little popup said it was to an AP-I shell.

Also, the thing you say never happens, happened:
image
A 20mm HEF shell hit a P-51’s wing, did not detach it, and instead set him on fire. Guess what? He still died.
What’s the difference from this to him simply losing that wing? He died anyway!

And different… how? Because you’re just describing the legacy system again lol

190 A-5s pushed head-ons because hisparkos and shvaks were never doing enough damage to it to matter. I dunno how Type 99-2s were back then, but certainly not as good as the german gun.
Why do anything else when just a single hit from MG151/20 would instantly kill the enemy, and it has twice as many guns with greater ammo load.

You stay at high altitude and lure him into a classic upwards spiral. It’s easy. Ki-44s have no power up there.

For the record, “multiple tons” here, actually means ~1300kg.

And I know numbers are hard, but do try to be honest.

In your “figures” you are purposefully going much faster than their level speed in order to give the Ki-44 as much ram air as you can and make up for its poor altitude performance. It’s also very convenient that you don’t have propeller efficiency nor thrust on there.

image
image

Ah, would you look at that. Almost 100hp more, 7% higher prop efficiency, and this is against a cold Ki-44-II that hasn’t had to cut back on RPM to control its severe overheating - all the Mustang has to do is open its very efficient radiators that barely affect top speed, or even don’t bother with MEC at all as it’s very flyable without.

The one where you almost entirely miss a Hellcat doing highway speeds right in front of you.

That’s the claims you guys are throwing out.

Again, for the record, “hyper specific target” here means “anyone I get in front of my nose”, and they died extremely quickly in almost all cases.

Real! Actually, I died once to a Yak today so this clearly means ShVAKs are doing too much damage. It’s only realistic if I can make a mistake and get away with it, learning nothing in the process.

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This is a myth.

The P-47 did not have the range required to go deep into

Germany and in 1943 the Luftwaffe tactic was to deploy their fighters beyond the range of the escorts.

The P-47 wasn’t “held back” due to politics. It didn’t have the capability.

This is a specific area that I am quite well versed on.

AAC development during the war was focused on a .60 caliber projectile that they thought would provide the best balance of ballistics and payload. Also on the development of advanced gun sights.

You could break the game into different periods and at any one point something was ass. There was a 2-3 year long period immediately before the ShVAK buff where Berezin was just better and taking the triple cannon Yak was just a pure downgrade.

I spaded the La-7 for a 1v1 tournament during that time period. It was prob hands down the worst possible gameplay experience. I spaded the plane and endeavored to never play it again.

This was at a time when I could get around 2-3 kills per game with anything carrying MG.151 or even Hispano Mk.II. My kills per battle in La-7 at the time was basically 1 kill and 1 assist. If was abysmal.

There was a period where the Yak-3U was at 5.3 and where the primary use for the BI was to ram bombers with it. My friend actually a bomber ramming montage with the plane at the time.

Me with friends were calling its bullets as “Imperial socks” (and it was called so before I came to the game) so it can be guessed why it had name like this

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As expected. No wonder 190 A-5s would push head-ons so readily, they knew they pretty much couldn’t die.

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That was my experience in the 190’s back when I was new to the game (2020).
I just knew that the odds were around 80% in my favor in pretty much any headon. Here and there I would trade with .50cals snipping my pilot or setting me on fire, and a couple times I was humbled by the old AN/M2’s x_x

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Oh. So it’s still not much of a difference from my initial claim. Lol. I simply started at 7k, dove to the altitude, and took the picture.

Bold of you to claim I was purposely trying to falsify data. From hereon out. I will assume that everything you post is an attempt to lie or mislead. Since you’re happy to lie about me.

So you’re purposely misconstruing what people are saying. Lol. Bad faith actor. You’re not even worth talking to anymore.

It did have the capability. 200 gallon Brisbane tanks were offered and made and were available, but drop tanks being put into service were hamstrung at every nook and cranny and turn by Hap Arnold’s edict. It’s why projects like the YB-40 were made.

The navy did the same with the Mark 14 torpedo. Not wanting to admit or even fix it’s faults until having to fix them later.

The continued development of the M23 also competed with the .60 caliber projectile.

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And you just happened to choose an altitude where the Ki-44-II was above its critical altitude and the supercharger is unable to compress enough air to keep the engine running at full power, where the P-51C is still MAP-limited and cannot make more power regardless of how much ram air you give it, and got the Ki-44-II to 676kph TAS, a speed it can only reach in a dive, in order to make the power difference be as small as possible.

Right. It’s all very convenient. Of course, it wouldn’t help your case if you went down to 2km where the 44 drops below 1400hp and the 51C is happily chugging away at ~1650hp.

You control the keys you press.

Now, tell me how I’m misconstruing your exact words? Or is your “single round” just like your “several tons”, where it actually means something completely different?

You may not remember that or deliberately omit this, but I’ve been saying M-geschoss is overperforming for a long time and it should also be weaker than it was pre-real sh*tter.

But since you’re denying German guns their damage advantage, why don’t we just give them same ballistics as, lets say, Shvak? Or even better, everyone gets same ballistics as Hispanos?

Why not?
Why, again, having different plane flight performance (you can’t just glue yourself to a Spitfire while flying Fw 190 f.e., if you ever slow down around most other single engine fighters you die), different ballistics, rof and belts is somehow “OK”, even if differences are actually huge and make playing certain aricraft simply painful, but god forbid somebody had better HE shell damage in a way that matters?

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Brisbane tanks were not offered in Europe and would not have extended the range far enough for the P-47 to allow it to escort bombers deep into Germany. It also wasn’t developed until the second half of 1943. Hap Arnold was also very well aware of the development of the Brisbane tank. The Brisbane tank was manufactured in Australia. It also wouldn’t have been compatible with 8th Air Force P-47s by the time it was developed.

This whole narrative around the Brisbane tank and the “Bomber Mafia” is pushed by Greg’s Airplanes, Trent Telenko, and Pierre Sprey is complete nonsense.

The AAC / Arnold made fighter range extension a high priority starting in very early 1942. Republic was actually directed to adapt the P-47 for the Lockheed style tanks that the AAC had standardized around 1941. This includes wing tank connections.

In-lieu of this modification, Republic opted to develop their own drop tank that used their own connection system and not the Army standard. The tank they developed was not suitable to combat use.

The decision to let Republic do its own thing lead to the AAC not having a good drop tank for it until 1943 and also resulted in the plane not being able to utilize drop tanks developed for other planes until late 1943 for centerline tanks and not until 1944 for wing tanks.

It also meant that the stockpile of P-38 tanks that were left in Britain when the 8th AF had their 4 squadrons of P-38s transferred to the Mediterranean theater for Operation Torch, and over Arnold’s protests, were completely unusable by Thunderbolts in 1943.

This is also ignoring the lack of internal fuel that would limit the P-47s ultimate range until it was increased to 370 gallons; these planes were not available until the middle of 1944. Bt that time the P-51 was already completing the escort mission and doing a better job of it.

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