Can we finally uptier the 2S38 to a BR where it sits with it's contemporaries or will it always be an underteired meme?

The HSTV-L sits at 11.3. It’s only advantages are the fact that it has a relatively low profile and higher mobility when directly compared to the 2S38. At it’s BR however, it is about as fast as the MBTs, sometimes slower. That is basically it.

The 2S38 sits at a BR where it can lolpen Leo 1s, Chieftains (Hull), Type 74S, etc, basically anything that isn’t an M60 in downtiers. Meaning that in a downtier, all but the most armored MBTs that are then quite slower than it, it can lolpen. We don’t even have to mention the APHE that can frontpen most MBTs
at least somewhere, usually resulting in a oneshot.

Not to mention it’s HE-VT it gets (that actually isn’t a VT round but a time-fuzed like the Puma’s is) allows it to be a higly effective SPAA against both helicopters and planes. Combined with the IRST, it creates a 4km no fly zone around it. In that regard, it is essentially a smaller, but similarly capable Otomatic, which you guessed it, is not 10.0, but 11.3. The Otomatiic however, can’t be used to harass tanks, as it can only load 12 APFSDS rounds.

Coming back to contemporary IFVs, the Puma still doesn’t have it’s AHEAD fire-control-system implemented. Meaning, despite being able to engange helicopters and low flying aircraft with similar lethality as the 2S38 in real life, ingame that feature was overlooked (and not implemented despite being reported multiple times). A simple rework would be to make it HE-VT or Shrapnel-VT, but that would be too easy so instead it has to stay a worse Begleitpanzer.

Anyways, thanks for reading my rant, as the 2S38 will probably stay 10.0 (clearly based on “”“statistics”“” and not “sales figures” or the fact that it is a russian vehicle).


HSTVL is in a worse state than ever with the new tanks and spall liners. You cant pen anything anymore. How anyone can justify the HSTVL being at its tier with its pen is beyond me. It takes some real mental gymnastics that would win gold in the Special Olympics to think the HSTVL is in a good spot.

Then again top tier is just a rigged Russian bias fantasy game.


sadly wont happen as those that abuse it will do anything to keep it at 10.0 btw the 2S38 can also front pen alot of 11.7 MBTs at ranges up to 2.5km for some reason


HSTVL is in horrible state right now and gajin keeps going forward instead of strenghtening tech trees. All they see is money and greed. HSTVL should have its historical 0.85 when gun got finalized and Similiar pen to m774. It should also have its proxy fuse ammo. All of the sources are declassified and I woud make a bug report on it but like there were so many hstvl bug reports and none of them got passed through, so people just lost hope. 2s38 is litteraly more versatile and better version of hstvl - unmanned turret, faster reload, arguably better survivability. 2s38 also has blow out panels, because many russian tanks (bmp2m, T-series) ammo just seems to turn black and dont do shit. Bmp2m and 2s38 have a feature where their ammo just ignites and does nothing to the vehicle itself. Actually these “Blow out” panels work better than the actual onces since they can take on internal ammo rack. Do note that bmp2m turret is manned so surviving this shit seems rather “odd”


keep in mind that the HE VT the 2S38 has should be a Time Fused HE like on the PUMA but we all know why it got the VT that it never fired and its FCS is not even programmed for such a round from all the sources we have acces to


Sad HSTVL main noises.

It’s honestly like hitting your balls with a whip at this point.
You pen nothing and if you pen something there is literally 0 spall.

Not to speak of the busted ass ammoracks of the T80s you most likely play 90% of the time against to begin with that just don’t explode for some reason only gaijin knows.

@ItzAntiL The only “fun” you had when playing the HSTVL was when you fought Leopards. Now that they have spall liners aswell…

Tuff. I’d say the HSTVL needs to go down in BR or get better / more capable rounds.

It’s out of question that the 2S38 is completly undertiered tho. The AA capabilites alone make it so strong at the BR it is at…


No it shouldnt go down in br. It should get buffed.

As player, who have 2S38, i can say, that Derivation cant survive a precise shot.

HSTV-L can take a ricoshot, or round just disappear in its furniture, or u can just play by your depression angles and dont take any risk, when 2S38 take damage from every shot, because of its big silhouette, and poor (60mm of calculated (if i remember that correctly)) armor, which can be lolpenned by anything, stronger than 20mm AP-T.

About unmanned turret, and blow out panels - turret maybe unmanned, but ammo is linked to gun chamber, and “go boom” anytime, when you got ur gun broken.
Blow out panels? What the hell are u talking about?
2S38 havent any. Its ammo, been placed in center of mass, and linked to a ammo rack. When 1 of yours shell get shot, it explode, provoke the explosion of whole ammo, and killing crew.
Oh, and sure… The crew. Who sits in the frontal part of tank in the straight line, and can be killed 2/3 by any AP shot.

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HSTV-L is faster, has more armor/survivability, has more pen, and is smaller.
It is FAR superior to 2S38, HSTV-L is not equal.
The closest analogue to 2S38 is Strf 9040C. & they aren’t equal either. 2S38 is slightly superior due to the better performing APFSDS.


2S38 can shot the HE-VT shells.
Its just a HE shell, with AR-51 detonator. (3UO6, if u remember that correctly). Been developed for S-60 AA autocannon (which used by ZSU-57-2).

But 3UO8 - its a really just a programmable HE.

So Gaijin just need to rename that shell in game from 3UO8, to 3UO6.

I agree, that HSTV-L must be replaced to 10.3 (to good setup), and take a HE-VT round.
Or Stingers. But that make it rather SPAA, than LT.

Sweden & Germany aren’t Russian. Please stop the nonsense.

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Bro blow out panels was an unfunny a joke. Of course there are none, but ready to fire ammo sometimes doesnt blow up. 2s38 also causes weird richochets and fuel tank eat all the spall. You do realise that your tank is 1.3 br below hstvl, yet it performs way better. Youve got proxy rounds faster reload better fire rate same firepower and same survibility even tho your tank is at 10.0, while hstvl is at 11.3. If you seriously think 2s38 should stay at its br youve got some serious mental issues


It’s Russian. It’ll never be uptiered appropriately.

It’s just another example of Russian Bias.


It’s quite funny looking into these threads and having people write here that have either one of the discussed vehicles or neither, but feel in the position to write a 300 word essay to cope with bouncing on them in RB.

I have a 58.4% winrate and a 1.4 KD in the 2S38 with a total of 395 matches played.
I have a 48.7% winrate and a 1.2 KD in the HSTVL with a total of 1324 matches played.

So please don’t talk nonsense about either of them if you don’t even use them.
Same goes for @Sanchouzz.

It’s faster, yes.

Everything else is just coping at his point.

The 2S38 has 80% of the entire HSTVL ammo just as ready rack.
The 2S38 has prox. fuse rounds that devistate helicopters and jets.
The 2S38 has 3rd gen thermals.
The 2S38 has autotracking of airborne targets.
The 2S38 has a laser warning system

The 2S38 has the crew in the hull and can’t be killed by turret shots with a turret that is mounted high enough to shoot over cover. (Yes it can in theory ammo rack. Never happened to me in 300+ matches except when getting hit by HE).

In terms of penetration we are talking about 276mm on the HSTVL and 225mm on the 2S38 with the 2S38 firing twice as fast.

The HSTVL has 130mm armor from a dead front shot, The 2S38 has 58mm and a giant ass fuel tank that absorbes more shrapnel then it probably should.

When you get hit by 500mm + KE rounds both armor variants don’t offer any protection. Same goes for any autocannon starting from 20mm AP belts. (so literally anything).

The HSTVL is 11.3, the 2S38 is 10.0. And it only got there with the last BR tweak. It was at 9.7 before I think.

Copium is strong in this discussion.

Just remembered a fun video I recorded a few months ago. Take a look. Have fun. And tell me that the HSTVL is good where it is right now.

PS: This isn’t even a T90M with spall liners.


i played it a few times last patch and its so bad now it once was very strong in the right hands but atm the HSTVL is just useless i mean i fought one in my 80BVM yesterday he fired 10 rounds into my side the only thing he did to me was break off my ERA


Yeah, it’s painfull. I wouldn’t call it useless but it isnt nearly as strong as before.

Just look at the video I posted. It would be funny if it didnt ruin the matches.

well i consider it useless if you need 50% or more of your ammo to just get 1 kill now


in its current state i would put it at 10.3 if it gets the right pen and HE VT then 10.7


The only way to still reliably kill the T-tanks is going for a frontal lower glacies shot.
Everything else is pointless.

I literally just ignore the russian tanks most of the times and go for the leopards or challengers which are MUCH easier to kill.

The only reason why I still use the HSTVL is to cap, spot and farm assists to get into CAS if I want to play CAS.

Besides that, just noticed the winrate difference.

48.7% winrate and a 1.2 KD in the HSTVL
58.4% winrate and a 1.4 KD in the 2S38

Pretty much sums up that br range and what nation you have fun with.

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honestly if i want a challenge i play the Chally 2s if i just want to turn my brain off i play 11.7 russia and others do the same want to have some fun play russia