The F-104C is a plane that doesn’t turn well but flies really fast. It’s primary weapons are the m61 Vulcan and the AIM-9B. As such, it is at the BR of 9.3.
The F-111A is a plane that doesn’t turn well but flies really fast. It’s primary weapons are the m61 Vulcan and the AIM-9B. As such, its obviously supposed to be at 10.3 for some reason.
Was this BR decision made solely based off the bomb load? Why should weapons that are primarily used for PvE make such a big BR difference? It’s not even like this thing is good for CAS. The F-111A has no guided weapons other than MCLOS missiles. At the end of the day dumb bombs aren’t that good at this BR in ground battles.
10.3 simply just makes no sense. At a full downtier, you are still going against supersonic jets which can out turn you on a dime. On an uptier you are going to be fighting pulse doppler missiles. Is there any way to realistically survive against a F-4S or a Mig-23ML in this thing?
I acknowledge that the F-111A does have some advantages over the F-104C in that it has flares and can pull slightly harder but it also has worse energy retention and is a much bigger target. As such, in it’s current state, I really can’t see how the F-111A would be unbalanced at 9.7. I’d still thing an AV8 would pose a bigger threat at that BR anyways.
Remove its CMs, MAWS, Radar and future potential for ECM, Ground radar, etc and sure, I can imagine it could go down a little at least. Still does have the large bomb load that does account for something, espeically as most things below 10 are subsonic and would never catch it
If the F-4C has to be 10.0 with no flares, half the bomb load, and some of the lowest tech missiles in its MU’s because of all the premium powercreep, the F-111A is just fine where it is.
The bomb load should not have a big impact on the BR. The BR should be primarily impacted by the planes capabilities in PvP. By your logic, the B29 and Tu4 should be in top tier. Secondly, the F-4C has significantly better turning capabilities and superior energy retention. It also has SAHR missiles. Most importantly, the F-4C has the AIM-9E which is significantly better than the AIM-9B.
If they could go mach 1+ im sure they would be
Ground attackers like this always have a BR determiend by GRB first. it really really sucks. Tornado IDS suffers because of this as well. As does Su-25/39s, Buc S2, jaguar Gr1A, etc etc. They all have a higher BR because of what they could do in GRB
The only thing you mentioned that has a actual impact on the planes viability are the countermeasures. The MAWS doesn’t make a difference for players that are already used to watching their 6, the ECM isn’t in the game yet, and the ground radar isn’t that useful for a plane with no radar weapons in a game with player markers.
SAHR missiles are incapable of killing anything with eyeballs and a controller, and the 9E’s are still among worst-in-class for the tier despite being a dedicated fighter now that so many planes have missiles 2-4 orders of magnitude better AND still get flares. Anything above 9.0 without flares is trash in my eyes these days.
It might be if they implement ground radar the way I hope. To allow for CCRP target points to be created based upon radar lock. Yes for the F-111 that would be more limited than the Tornados. but you could loft onto a target with some accuracy “in theory”.
But it all adds up
Keep in mind, if you are carrying more than 3 bases of bombs you are limited to mach 0.8 (literally su25 speed) because locked wing sweep and if you are carrying more than 2 bases, you can barely exceed mach 1 because limited wing sweep from inner pylons. Keep in mind that the F-4C can also carry 3 bases worth of bombs. The bomb load doesn’t make a big difference when you consider that in most games, you are lucky to get 2 bases since they got rid of fast base respawn. The big difference between the F-111 and the planes you mentioned like the Su-25/39, Tornado IDS, and Jaguar Gr1A is that they have really good air to air missiles and/or advanced guided air to ground weapons. Why would I want to use AIM-9Bs and unguided dumb bombs when I could simply just launch AGM65s and AIM-9Ls from an A10. Or instead why not launch KH29s and R-60Ms from a SU25. Or I could use 35g Magic ones and paveways from the Super Etendard (which btw is supersonic, has countermeasures, outturns the F-111, and is 10.0).The F-111A does not have any of that. It does not have the maneuverability of its peers. It does not have the high G all aspect missiles of its peers. It does not have the guided air to ground weapons of its peers. The only advantage that the F-111A has is that it can theoretically hold more bombs. Even though holding that many bombs will tank the performance so badly it’s literally unuseable. Even though taking so many bombs will ensure that you won’t get a single base because you’ll be so slow that all 4 bases will be gone by the time you get there. Seriously, what difference does the max payload make when you cannot possible use that payload? What exactly does it have that makes it deserve to be at 10.3?
Bomb load is to do with GRB. Its stupid, but that is just the fact of it and large bomb loads do result in higher BRs (Look at the Lancaster vs Pe-8, or Lincoln vs Ju-288C for example)
But the important thing to remember. you dont HAVE to take bombs in ARB. (this is why Jaguar always gets denied its historically accurate 9Ls)
So if this was say 9.3…and you only took Aim-9Bs (so no bombs at all)
Then… Well, only thing that could catch you is an F-104 or Lightning (just) . No AAMs could touch you because of CMs, and you could attack with impunity on those slower aircraft, so long as they were distracted.
F-104
2x Aim-9B
Average Ammo count (750)
No CMs
Top speed: 1115kt
Lightning F6
2x Red Tops
Low ammo count (240) (and on a personal note, really hard to use guns)
No CMs
Top speed: 1193kts
F-111
8x Aim-9Bs with no gun
6x Aim-9Bs with gun
High ammo count (2000)
CMs + MAWS
Top Speed: 1303kts
(speeds are based upon rough stock numbers from the game)
So thats before taking into account bomb load as well.
Lightning and F-104 always get asked to be moved up higher than 9.3
I’d hate to be in a Buc S2 and find myself with an F-111 chasing me. Or in something like the Hunter FGA9 and be powerless against the F-111 (fighting F-104s in the hunters really sucks) and those are 9.3s. I cant even imagine how an 8.3 would be cope.
(for the record, I do think the F-104 and Lightning need to move up as well, though in the lightnings case, that should happen with Red Tops overhaul, with that, its an easy 10.0. Not sure about the F-104 however)
I see 4 fates for the F-111
- Stay as is at 10.3 with 9Bs
- Move down to 10.0 with 9Bs
- Stay at 10.3, but get 9Es
- Move to 10.7 with 9Js
I think 10.3 is a sweet spot for it. Any higher and it will struggle, any lower and it could be a bit OP (and certainly should not be in the 9.3 area). Aim-9Es though, might be required. That much I’ll admit, 9Bs at 10.3 does look a little brutal. But at the same time, your job is to put bombs on target, not dogfight (and you really really want to avoid going to 10.7)
The F-111 is a Fighter bomber. Able to deliver a very large quantity of bombs.
Planes can be used in air and ground battles and BR should reflect it. F111 can carpet bomb half of the ground map…
That being said, Planes should have separate BRs for air and ground/naval modes.
One of the fastest planes in the game on the deck, great handling and an exceptional 20mm vulcan at 9.7? Is that a joke?
Compared to the F-104C the F-111:
- Is much faster
- Turns better
- Has 3 x as many air-to-air missiles (4 x as many if you switch the gun for missiles)
- Has over twice as much cannon ammo
- Has chaff / flares
- Has an RWR
- Has a missile approach Warner
- Has a radar lead indicator
All of that justifies a significantly higher BR. And that’s without even mentioning the ground attack ordnance.
I tried the F-111 yesterday in test drive if its even worth grinding for and I was like holy crap!!! My mind was blown instantly. I immediately switched grinding from Mig-29G to F-111 until it goes up in BR. This thing, stock mind you, turns like an F-14 and is faster than interceptors ABOVE its BR such as Mig-21BIS AND with 2000 round radar sighted vulcan no less. It will surely go up in BR. I think 11.3 would be a more appropriate BR for a bomber of this caliber. Missiles don’t matter, its role is a bomber but at 10.3 its better than the fighters you go up against lol.
And you are complaining about being too high? Lmao. Its not that its too high, but the F-104 you talked about are too low.
6x AIM-9Bs, countermeasures, and is faster.
Not gonna name you any fighter to be compared with
Buccaneer S2, BR 9.3, need I say more?
Bro did you just say 6xAIM-9B to justify the 10.3 br?
BR is related to both Ground and Air mode, therefore bombloads have to be counted in BR.
8x AIM-9B (2 in the bomb bay)