That is a reason to complain to gaijin about research being to long, i absolutely agree with that. But aircrafts are integral part of ground battles since the introduction of ground battles so complaining about their existence is something strange to me.
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A bit weird coming from a guy that hasn’t touched ground rank 5 and above. Making one mode have double/triple the RP/SL requirements to stay fully competitive is absurd and pretty unfair.
We should be able to research aircraft of a given tier basically 50-100% off if we have same country/tier combo unlocked for ground. Gaijin not doing this pretty much means aircraft aren’t a necessity in Ground.
That’s why they are completely optional vehicle type that can’t interact with objectives ?
I doubt something integral would be reduced to optional by the devs themselves.
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Not complaining about their existence inherently, but the power balance was for a long time insane at top tier, thats not even talking about low tiers. Air has for a long time been a very easy way to clobber ground and be completely uncontested by SPAA. Its become such a problem that the meme of GRB just being another version of ARB isn’t even all that wrong. Its not all to uncommon to see people duking it out in dogfights to retain air superiority just like in ARB, while SPAA just sit and watch not being able to land a single hit as long as the fighters dont stall bellow 1000 or so meters. The power imbalance is still there but better at top tier now after IRIS-T, but if people still suggest that the most viable way to fight air beyond about 9.0 is air there is still a potent imbalance.
Yeah, i prefer aircrafts and really hesitant to touch ground because of aforementioned problems with RP gains and research speed.
Gaijin not doing this pretty much means that they don’t want you to get any shortcuts, it has zero relation to the game balance. You then could also say that having Air tree researched to the certain tier then you should also get discount for ground but you for some reason didn’t even mentioned it.
Except they can. You can absolutely land on a capture point and take it from the enemy, but good luck doing so obviously.
Yeah its a big overarching issue that I’ve seen people try disprove somehow. My basic go to is that if getting 3 kills in ARB (not all that challenging) and staying alive for the rest of the match with about 20 minutes total lifetime will land you about 20K RP fairly easily, with premium time yes. In GRB spawning twice dying once having 10 kills and a couple assists or a zone cap and a nuke drop nets you just about 15 - 18k RP, which is like a 1 in a 300 match or so, much rarer than a decent ARB match netting you consistently more then the best case scenario GRB match.
I think its honestly a good idea, maybe not quite so high as 100%, but 50% sounds reasonable. It wouldn’t be too different from the rp bonus system they added once you researched a top rank 8 vehicle. and I quite frankly think @MotorolaCRO didn’t omit the same concept for air research to then be used to discount ground research, but you would have to ask him yourself.
You can yes, but that is beside the point, it is so inefficient that you’re better off bringing an M22 in a 12.0 game to cap the point, its so inefficient you could almost argue its discouraged
I have bad news for you. Gaijin removed this feature.
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I don’t think reducing the amount of RP/SL needed to match other modes is a shortcut. Not doing this actually reduces the balance in the given game mode.
Why would I mention that ?
Can you play and grind aircraft in a mode where you don’t need to think about tanks ?
I think ARB let’s you do exactly that.
What you said here would only be logical if tanks had their own mode besides GRB, just like aircraft have ARB.
They removed this option.
Try queuing up for GRB without any ground vehicle in your lineup. Now do the same but without any air vehicle and tell me what happens.
Tanks are integral part of GRB, while aircraft never were and I doubt they’ll ever be.
Aircraft as a type is pretty useless in GRB as tanks can do everything already.
Can you engage other tanks with your tank ? Yes.
Can you interact with all of the objectives with your tank ? Yes.
Aircraft look like a cheap, “half-assedly” installed crutch that serves no other purpose than to annoy rightful owners of the mode.
You “think”. Ask gaijin for a direct answer, right now it’s just speculations by you.
Because this is only fair, is it not? We are trying to achieve balance here, right?
Depending on a jet. Attackers designed for, well, attacking and you can kill AI tanks and other stuff. And i absolutely don’t mind replacing all those AI with real players but i thing ground players will absolutely hate the idea.
Aircrafts have their specific mode because you would hate playing ground vehicle on air map. Also War Thunder originally was designed as game about planes, Ground mode, as well as Naval mode were added later. Wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to think that aircrafts are still hold a slightly higher role in this game than everything else, don’t you think?
As i said, ground players would hate the idea.
I’m sorry to say we don’t agree on this
Aircraft can engage tanks, and also intercept other aircraft. So they are in fact not useless.
In some cases it is more convenient to destroy an enemy tank by airpower than by another tank, for example if the target is in an extremely advantageous position.
Could you have a functional ground mode without aircraft? Yes.
Would that offer as complete and rich of an experience as current Ground RB does?
I personally don’t think so.
Although your statement is true it doesn’t hold much water anymore, yes, war thunder started life as an air combat sim. It is now however, a military combat sim containing just as much ground as air. In GRB tanks should hold the power to win the match not the planes.
This is already the case. Matches are mostly decided by draining the tickets of the opposing team, and controlling ground capture zones is the most effective way to do so.
I also want to share this sentiment, but sadly gaijin has proven time and time again they’re incapable of balancing the power dynamic between planes and tanks at most BRs, in some BRs SPAA are broken, and in others it might as well serve the same function as a soldier pointing his rifle at the sky. In the current situation it doesn’t provide a particularly rich experience, although I am in favour of keeping air, something has got to change…
My bad, should’ve used “I know”, didn’t realize you’ll focus on that one.
If one mode requires, for example, 15m RP to be fully competitive in, while other modes require 10m RP, getting the first mode in line with others isn’t giving out any shortcuts, it’s basically making them the same.
Would be fair if tanks had their own mode to play in, just like aircraft have.
I highly doubt AI ground units will pose a challenge to you in ARB.
Modding ARB to have ground units (AAs) serving as “punishers” (like CAS does in GRB) is extremely easy with just a few tweaks, but I doubt fighter jocks would like that though.
Bottom line, you don’t need to research tanks in order to play ARB (your planes) while being fully competitive.
Ground units don’t have that luxury which should be changing.
Read my answer above.
Ground was always planned.
They would absolutely love the idea with just a few easy tweaks.
Playing as punishers and shitting up the mode that belongs to someone else is apparently really popular.
You wouldn’t have anything to intercept if there were no aircraft to begin with.
Tanks are vehicles that can interact with each and every objective on the map, while aircraft can’t do that at all.
That’s why I said it’s nothing more than a crutch.
This crutch existing also creates a problem you can’t solve, as aircraft vs tank engagement is inherently extremely unfair to the point of tanks serving as target practice, which isn’t a thing that should be happening in a PvP game.
True.
Ehhh… it is true that aircraft can’t interact with objectives, but aircraft can interact with tanks. So unlike the decorative planes that fly overhead in World of Tanks they do serve a gameplay purpose.
That purpose being an additional way to spot, harass and destroy enemy tanks, making the job of friendly tanks easier. The side that can more effectively leverage air support while denying the enemy the use of theirs gets an advantage on the ground.
It adds another layer to the gameplay. Does it suck to be bombed? Yes, big time. Does it feel good to save/be saved by a teammate using air support? Heck yes. Do the planes sound and look cool as they fly overhead? I think they do. And it’s even cooler that they’re part of the battle and not just a scripted event.
That word gets thrown around a lot by many people for many things. War Thunder is filled to the brim with asymmetry and aspects that some find unbalanced yet others see no problem with. Relying on said advantageous position could also be called a crutch, if I were so inclined. Which team has more favorable terrain can vary depending on map, but regardless of map both teams have access to air support.
That is a natural consequence of one team having air superiority, and that can be contested. Ultimately there’s a fine balance between anti air, fighters, bombers, and tanks - and I won’t sit here and lie to you and tell you that everything is fine. There are balance problems here (the severity of which varies depending on the BR), but ultimately nothing that can’t be fixed. I don’t believe it’s necessary to totally remove planes from ground. Like I said earlier the cost would be too great as you lose out on some features that makes WT ground unique.
Although its gotten much better, the presence of a couple air units can completely sway the match. if they move the airfields further away it would quickly fix the issue, making the frequency of CAS much less, giving ground units more time to move and breathe. Otherwise i agree with you point, yes ground units hold more dominion when it comes to tickets and objectives.
I support moving the airfields back on all ranks. For one, it gives more space for CAP to intercept CAS
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Ah as always building a strawman can’t beat some one argument builds his own and starts fighting with it no one talks about Abrams