Buff the reload speed of all Merkava 3s

[An_Pigeon]

@TPS_Hydra

T-80UD/DU-1

What T80 is that mate? xD

@TPS_Hydra

Also fun fact, both the M1A1 and Merkava Mk.3 can go through one another clean - additionally, the Leopard 2A4 which sits at 10.7 has similar turret protection when compared to the M1A1.

yes Im well aware that the M1A1 and merkava can cut clean threough one another.
however im showing the the merkava Mk3 at 11.3 is still easily destroyed with even tank ammunition from 2 BR steps below it. Hell it can be penned and one tapped by 8.3 tanks while an abrams cant.

That is to highlight the protection levels that YOU claimed are good.
The merkava Mk3 can barely survive being hit by a 100mm apfsds never mind a 120MM modern one.

@TPS_Hydra

additionally, the Leopard 2A4 which sits at 10.7 has similar turret protection when compared to the M1A1.

The leopard 2A4 if it got DM33 which it can historically fire would 100 percent be 11.0 at least.

Also for the leopard 2a4 and M1A1 comparisson you should do it with the penetration maps, not choose one specific point on the 2a4 which is the hardest part of the turret

You should also show what round you are using, and the penetration map to get a more accurate representation of what you’re trying to prove cause if we use the fact that even M774 can whack a leopard 2a4 frontally it tells us everything we need to know.

[An_Pigeon]

@MotorolaCRO

Click Bait should move to 12.0 as it’s on par with 2A5 and is definitely better than some 12.0s as well.

The M1A1 HC, M1A1 click bait and M1A2 should all be 12.0 they are functionally identical to the Sep V2 bar in thermal qualityand commander sight

[An_Pigeon]

Now if you’'ll excuse me, the points are made, If @TPS_Hydra wants to try fervently defend his ideals that the merkava Mk3 somehow doesnt deserve a slight reload buff (one of gaijins forms of balancing) then let him stay blinded to the statistics of the vehicles.

[MotorolaCRO]

@An_Pigeon

The M1A1 HC, M1A1 click bait and M1A2 should all be 12.0 they are functionally identical to the Sep V2 bar in thermal qualityand commander sight

They can’t move CB to 12.0 because it’s a premium, and they can’t move HC and M1A2 because they’re the same thing as CB so it would look weird.

[TPS_Hydra]

The fact you continue to use M774 as a example is hilarious, a 10.7 shell doesn’t penetrate a 11.3 tanks? Who would’ve guess! 🥀🥀🥀

Hell it can be penned and one tapped by 8.3 tanks while an abrams cant

I frontally penetrated a T-80U with the PLZ83-130, what’s your point? I also did the same to the Abrams, both have their weaknesses and strengths, at this point just say you want a 1 second reload for the Merkava Mk.3 lmao.

What T80 is that mate? xD

The T-80 in the Chinese TT, it sits at 10.7 and has better armour but worse survivability than the Merkava Mk.3, would you prefer to see that moved up to 12.0 as it has superior armour when compared to the M1A2?

@MotorolaCRO

Not quite as large portions of UFP on the M1A1 will be auto bounce zones

At level ground they don’t bounce and if you’re shooting the Abrams UFP with any shell then you’re doing something wrong - it’s like shooting the turret of a Leopard 2A7V and being surprised when you don’t penetrate.

[MrBombastic8]

actually it would be different if gaijin actually account composite armor improvement over generation and few other stuff

[LI1146311427]

To be honest,the armor protection of the Merkava is even inferior to that of the CV90 infantry fighting vehicle.Just now,I engaged in a firefight with the C9035.Its 35mm armor-piercing round penetrated my engine and destroyed me,while my 400mm penetration armor-piercing round was actually blocked by its engine and failed to inflict damage!This is really absurd!

[LI1146311427]

On another occasion,my Merkava 3B was actually destroyed by a single shell from the 2S38 at my 10 o’clock position.The armor of the Merkava is really terrible.

[TPS_Hydra]

I have a 2.7 K/D in it, you don’t even have it unlocked lol

Let’s not get into this, a KDR of 2.7 isn’t something to flex as well, if it was like maybe 4 then I’d be impressed. Additionally, people who don’t have certain vehicles can’t talk about them now? If you want to hear the worse taken throughout history, head to the War Thunder Forums where people will argue with you for 5 hours straight about the same thing over and over again!

[israelinoam333]

Q: What to do with the Merkava Mk.3?
A:

1. Buff the frontal armor - turret front resists 3BM46 and possibly also 3BM60; UFP resists 3BM42 and likely also 3BM46, a possibility of an upgrade to resist 3BM60 as well, sacrificing the engine block gives around 100 additional milimeters of crew protection; LFP resists M774 and possibly 3BM22.
2. Buff the side + rear armor - all Merkavas are well-known to have excellent side armor, yet in WT they can be killed side-on by reserve tanks. The rear armor is known to be amazingly strong, to the point where shooting it became the doom of many terrorists - the tank will just turn the turret and evaporate the threat. I suggest we buff side and rear armor of the Mk.3 by a modest number of 50%, since the real values are yet unkown, apart from the fact that they are way more significant than the ones we have in the game.
3. Buff the reload - Merkava crews are no worse than US ones. A 6.5 second basic reload is reasonable, despite my genuine belief that it could also be slightly faster.
4. Make the ammo safer. Merkava tanks IRL are known to have high ammo safety, and the fireproof containers we have in-game (only for the ready rack, I have no idea why) should also function as blowout-panneled containers.
5. Add the Iron Vest spall liner to increase survivability.
6. Add the APFSDS M321 as a stock shell.
7. Add barrel-launched LAHAT ATGMs.
8. Buff the targeting speed to NATO standart.
9. Buff the penatration of the M339 shell to 172.5 mm RHA by kinetic + 37 mm by high energy action (AKA explosives).
10. Stabilize the commander sight on the Merkava Mk.3B.
11. Make the engine block effective at crew protection like it is IRL.
12. Add an SPAA for them to play with.

[An_Pigeon]

@TPS_Hydra

The fact you continue to use M774 as a example is hilarious, a 10.7 shell doesn’t penetrate a 11.3 tanks? Who would’ve guess!

The fact im actively showing the M774 penetrate the merkava mk3 more than any other tank.
hell even showed that the 3BM25 can go clean through it frontally.

@TPS_Hydra

I frontally penetrated a T-80U with the PLZ83-130, what’s your point? I also did the same to the Abrams, both have their weaknesses and strengths, at this point just say you want a 1 second reload for the Merkava Mk.3 lmao.

They have weaknesses???

You are actively choosing to ignore the fact the merkava at 11.3 entire frontal arc is entirely green to an 8.3 1950s MBT.

@TPS_Hydra

The T-80 in the Chinese TT, it sits at 10.7 and has better armour but worse survivability than the Merkava Mk.3,

It infact doesnt have worse survivability at all. thats ancedotal evidence again where is your source

[TPS_Hydra]

It infact doesnt have worse survivability at all

Holy sh*t do you even know what survivability refers to for MBTs? The T-80 and T-72 series of vehicles have one of the worst chances survivability out there, once you manage to penetrate, their tight crew layout means you either one shot through crew knockout or you detonate their charges.

The fact you honestly believe the T-80UD/DU-1 has on par if not, superior survivability than the Merkava Mk.3 makes me laugh, amazing way to discredit anything you say

You are actively choosing to ignore the fact the merkava at 11.3 entire frontal arc is entirely green to an 8.3 1950s MBT

Something I’ve already acknowledged if you did read the conversation prior which you claimed to do, other tanks don’t have a railgun for a APFSDS unlike the Merkava Mk.3 as well, Britain’s best shell is nowhere near as good as M322.

The fact im actively showing the M774 penetrate the merkava mk3 more than any other tank.
hell even showed that the 3BM25 can go clean through it frontally

You shouldn’t use protection map as a way to represent the effectiveness of armour, you should know that already if you’ve played the game long enough (which you apparently haven’t).

[An_Pigeon]

@TPS_Hydra

Holy sh*t do you even know what survivability refers to for MBTs? The T-80 and T-72 series of vehicles have one of the worst chances survivability out there,

procedes to completely ignore the fact that 3bm25 can and will pen anywhere on the merkava 3 frontally and hit one of the four rounds behind the engine

also ignores said photos of pretty much any round going through the tank and one tapping it

@TPS_Hydra

The fact you honestly believe the T-80UD/DU-1 has on par if not, superior survivability than the Merkava Mk.3 makes me laugh, amazing way to discredit anything you say

tell me, what is the T80UD/DU-1? as far as im aware there isnt one in game

the fact you actively are trying to twist what Im saying to and I quite “discredit anything you say” shows how ignorant you are actively choosing to be.

ive hundreds of battles in T80s alone, and merkavas at 9.3.

@TPS_Hydra

The fact you honestly believe the T-80UD/DU-1 has on par if not, superior survivability than the Merkava Mk.3

Also where is your source to back up the claim that the T80UD/ BE you cant even get its name right has worse survivability ? it actively can survive more which is hilarious due to the fact T series tanks have ridiculously low survivability.

Much like the CR2 has piss poor survivability due to the ammo layout.

@TPS_Hydra

other tanks don’t have a railgun for a APFSDS unlike the Merkava Mk.3

Its literally all it has mate.

@TPS_Hydra

Britain’s best shell is nowhere near as good as M322.

Im aware ive got near enough 1000 battles between my challanger 2s, I regularly say the CR2s are the single worst top tiers in game.
How is the CR2 L27A1 relevant to the M1A1 and merkava though?

@TPS_Hydra

You shouldn’t use protection map as a way to represent the effectiveness of armour, you should know that already if you’ve played the game long enough (which you apparently haven’t).

Id say 3200 hours and over 12k missions is more than enough time.

@TPS_Hydra

You shouldn’t use protection map as a way to represent the effectiveness of armour,

You should if you actually know how to use it.
As long as the angles are the same and the ammo used, distance and such are all the same its completely fine to use.

You are actually the first ever person ive seen say not to use it, when some of the best players in the damn game will use it to show how shit or good some armours are.

• you are now actively choosing to ignore statistically how bad the merkava is compared to the tanks of the same BR hence the notion for a reload buff to 5 seconds. Or remove the abrams 5 second reload.

• as well as this merkava past the ready rack shoots up to with an un aced crew 9 seconds per round.

• Going by the fact you are completely clutching at straws and moving the goal posts massively exhibit A " other tanks don’t have a railgun for a APFSDS unlike the Merkava Mk.3 as well, Britain ’s best shell is nowhere near as good as M322" ´

exhibit B - All the bringing up of the T80 when no one mentioned it at all in a comparisson of the M1A1 abrams and Merkava Mk3.

shows me that you, not only are trying to completely derail the post about how the merkava Mk3B is pretty poor, but also have absolutely no idea how to communicate it through the stats.
You dont even know how the APFSDS functions in the game

[TPS_Hydra]

[Pangolin_Fan]

Bold of you to assume that Gajin intends of buffing the merkies.

[israelinoam333]

Sad truth.

[An_Pigeon]

His final response gives me everything I need to know. He’s folded like a deck chair

[TPS_Hydra]

His final response gives me everything I need to know. He’s folded like a deck chair

No, it’s because I’ve said everything which needs to be said, I don’t plan to waste time with people who don’t read my previous messages and make silly argument - went from saying the M1A1 is overpowered to showcasing the flaws it had yourself.

Arguing with a brick wall doesn’t get me anywhere, I’ve stated my opinion and facts and that’s all which needs to be said, the Merkava Mk.3 has one of the best APFSDS in-game (let alone for 11.3), excellent survivability and alright mobility - it’s perfectly fine at 11.3, cope kind child.

[AggressiveEngage]

The Merkava Mk.3 tbf is pretty decent for its battle rating, Israel has more concerning issues other than getting some randoms tanks reload buffed

[MotorolaCRO]

@TPS_Hydra

and alright mobility

Mobility would be alright if it was at 9.3.