Gaijin should redo the damage and penetration formula for ammunition fragments, especially HESH, which has been weakened over the years
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he wasn’t talking about what you are
not liking the replies to the original post -
What you are saying is if this is modeled somewhat accurately Royal Ordinance sends out tanks that will fail to penetrate - shatter - useless HESH
The same Britain that broke enigma - dam busters - grand slam bomb - radar - sonar - HFDF - H2S ground penetrating radar - hedgehogs - on and on.
Not a bright bunch at all - it is a wonder it is not a German province
Saying 7.7 is too high for the Centurion mk3 is pure cope man, the APDS isn’t bad, aim for flat and non-spaced spots and you can almost always disable a tank and kill it with a follow-up at minimum.
The only part I agree with is that HESH is a broken mess, one of the main threads complaining about how bad the FV4005 hesh is was my post. My main problem with HESH is that it doesn’t overpressure consistently or at all, if a HESH shell penetrates its target the crews isnr going to be able to fight anymore as their ears are going to have burst from an overpressure blast. It is also annoying that a few weeks ago 183mm HESH could kill a T90 through the upper plate negating ERA and everything, but now it does nothing even though a shell of that magnitude would tear a modern tank hull apart even with composite to soften the blow, even though there was no patch notes to say that how hesh works was tweaked again and for the worse
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Gaijin’s article after the Seek Destory version update states that the HESH formula has been modified, but in reality it is still a mess, which is deception. Gaijin should stop updating new vehicles and copying and pasting, and use a new version to modify various absurd issues in the game…
it worked well for a couple weeks but got messed with again and now its just shit
Personally I love both the Centurion Action X and the Centurion Mk 3, they have the same cannon and ammunition as I’m sure you’re aware, they can easily punch through most things, bar the occasional shell shattering which is ridiculous and needs to be removed, but overall it’s a good vehicle, decent mobility, great cannon with two plane stabilizer. The only thing I agree with in this post is how weird HESH is. The FV4005 is great and I love playing it, just start to wonder what is going on when I fail to even damage a T-34-85 by shooting it’s turret cheek. The way HESH works should 100% kill the turret crew and almost definitely hull crew as well, even with the 90mm HESH used on stuff like the JPZ 4-5.
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Pretty much every country uses HESH. Complaining that the Challengers still have access to HESH is ironic when most MBTs don’t have any explosive round at top tier, just APFSDS and HEAT-FS. I personally prefer HESH over HE- if used well that extra penetration makes quick work of any vehicle’s roof. On the Chieftains for example I pack a nearly 50/50 load of APDS and HESH because the HESH annihilates light vehicles and can be used for indirect fire from a turret-down position.
APDS spalling and shattering are genuine skill issues. APDS reliably kills almost any tank with two shots maximum - hit the hull on the gunner’s side (right for NATO, left for WarPact), follow this up with a shot on the other side. Most MBTs even have 3/4 the crew in a straight line from the front, so a penetrating shot even with 0 spalling is still a kill as the projectile itself creams the crew.
What does the “HE” in HEAT-FS stand for?
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Mate do you think HEAT-FS can punch through a roof like an HE or HESH shell?
I didn’t go and say “now what do you think the APDS in APFSDS/APDS-FS stands for” because that’d be a stupid comment.
The HE in HEAT explodes in every direction just like every other explosive does.
The force in a small section is focused, and the shell will have less HE content than a dedicated HE shell, but otherwise it has exactly teh same effects.
The conventional HEs are by far far superior to the HESH. Tanks like the Russian ones and their 125mm HE works quite well, however the HESH there are times when they cannot even kill light vehicles. A clear example is a game I played with the conqueror, I shot two 120mm HESH at the Czechoslovakian SPAA truck and in both cases I didn’t do anything, but possibly with an 85 or 90mm HE I would have killed it without problems.
One of the problems with the HESH is that they are modeled as if they were an AP, they have forward penetration, so if you hit exactly a point where there are no crew members it does not directly do any damage, when in reality the first thing is that the explosion It would damage all around and literally tear off a good part of any light vehicle.
brother in christ HEAT is an explosive ordinance
So is a shrapnel shell, doesn’t mean it can be used like HE or HESH
it literally has the overpressure mechanic, it works better than HESH (excl AVRE and 4005)
you’re saying shrapnel works better than HESH???
have you played hesh recently? it was fixed for a while but got messed with again
Yes, it works just fine. Better than HE of similar calibre, and certainly more useful than HEAT. If you can use HEAT there’s no situation where APFSDS wouldn’t be better, while HE of HESH allows overpressure of cupolas/roofs/mgs, side scrapers, indirect fire, and anhiliation of light vehicles
Yes and no, heat against light tanks works wonders and will often overpressure just like hesh would, but the general utility of heat in war thunder is just better than hesh because it can semi reliably penetrate armour, unlike hesh.
The problem is that high caliber he and heat just does it better, and more reliably.
With the new system where the hesh “Penetration” equalizes on the plate you can sometimes not do any damage where heat would probably at least take out one crew member, especially because of the buff to heat, giving it a much larger cone of damage. (hit the left side and kill crew on the right kind of cone)
Although there are times where heat won’t overpressure where hesh would it’s just too rare to be a viable alternative.
(also I got a kill with heat where apfsds was not going to kill so ha ha)
You say that but a HESH round going off on a tank is still going to do damage heck if you have a 165mm or 183mm HESH shell impact a turret that turret is going to be in a rather poor state of repair if not removed from the hull it was sitting on.
Even if the composite armour can absorb the shockwave that is still a lot of bang taking place in close proximity to the target…