I had a few very fun games with the sap where I one shot 2 paris class ships
Do we have fully detailed armour schemes for the like of the valiant and QE? I’ve been looking online and been hard to find schemes for post refit.
Been looking for stuff on KGV, Vanguard and Nelson/rodney to see how they are going to stack up in the future. My only concern with KGV and Vanguard so far is from everything I’ve managed to find so far they ditched turtle back armour.
Anyone here have anything they are willing to share?
I believe @warhead_beast has some for the QE’s and i’m gonna buy a book that has some stuff on the Lions/KGV’s/Vanguard.
Nelson is a completely different beast though and aside from G3 has the best armour available to the tree due to its pure thickness and high degree of slope.
well the kgv’s have a higer peak of the thickness but they are more of an all or nothing design than the nelsons
Yes but KGV is also uninclined. So Nelson does beat it iirc. Also arguably Nelson is one of the ultimate all-or-nothing designs though she does retain a little bit of distributed.
However the KGV protection over magazines brings it back up, its just everywhere else that its still very good, but not the best, when for a ship with so many tradeoffs it does kinda need to have the best armour.
I will still hold out for the G 3 with 16.5" which has the best armour and best guns.
pre dread noughts ???
HMS Victoria
BB-1 USS Texas
SMS Deutschland
French pre dreadnought Brennus
Italian Pre dreadnought Emanuele Filiberto
Russian Pre dreadnought Potemkin
1 Like
these are some of the oldest dread noughts for each country i could find but if you add pre dreadnoughts you could add a lot of countrys to the game even minor countrys
God knows how you would balance them. Compression sucks enough as it is to have something like HMS Arethusa with 6x 6inch guns only 0.3 BRs lower than something like Prinz Eugen with 8x 8inch guns.
Something like this likely wouldnt have the surviability to fight any dreadnoughts but easily would have the firepower to deal with most light cruisers at least. No idea how resistant they would be to damage from something like a light cruiser or heavy cruiser compared to current dreadnoughts, but Id have to imagine reasonably well.
So based upon their performance vs dreadnoughts theyd be like 5.7 and they would be really unfun to deal with without torpedos.
They would also be very slow and a bit annoying to play, making them hard to evade aircraft or torps in.
Overall… I dont think they should go earlier than what we’ve got now. At least for now. Id rather see them focus on WW2 era ships or even cold war era ships. Type 21 or Type 42 would be fun.
My one worry with Nelson is it never got the proposed extra armour that I don’t it ever got the additional below the water line armour that was angled in the opposite direction to the main belt. Imagine a turtle back but not behind the main belt but below it.
As nice as this would be I think the only way you could make it work would be to re do how the naval tech trees work. i.e. make then work in a similar way to World of Warships so we have in effect reserve BB’s ect.
On top of that you would have to put a BR limit on aircraft and introduce other ships of a similar age ect.
Regarding British battleships, I have some details, although granted not necessarily in the easy-to-share picture form as it is pulled from various primary and secondary sources. Please note that I will describe things in whole inches, as in British primary sources, but that in practice 1" nominal = approximately 0.98" actual thickness. British armour weights were specified in lbs per square foot - i.e. a 10" plate was specified as 400 lb armour. Armour was actually ~40.8 lbs per square foot, and armour was rolled to the specified weight, so a 400 lb plate was actually 9.8" thick.
Battleship Warspite: Detailed in the Original Plans contains some armour details for the ship post reconstruction. These details also largely apply to the reconstructions of Valiant and Queen Elizabeth. Vertical armour was as per the original configuration - a vertical 13" belt, which tapered to 8" at it’s bottom edge and 6" above. The 13" thick portion was 6 ft tall. Barbettes had a maximum thickness of 10" and turret faces were 13". A 1" thick turtle deck sloped down from the middle deck to the bottom of the belt. The reconstruction armour upgrades involved replacing the horizontal armour on the middle deck. Over the magazines (Frames 36-82 and 182 [Valiant, QE] / 196 [Warspite] - 230) this was 4" thick non-cemented (NC) armour on 1" of high tensile (HT) plating. Over the engine rooms and boiler rooms this was 2.5" NC on 1" HT. The Queen Elizabeths had a distributed / incremental armour scheme, so obviously it’s more complicated than the above. Cross section through ‘B’ turret to illustrate:
The Nelsons were a radically different design with an ‘All or Nothing’ approach. The main belt was a uniform thickness - 14" over the 16" magazines and 13" over the machinery and secondary magazines - and mounted internally at a fixed angle of 15 degrees. It was above 13 ft high. Deck armour was 6.25" NC on 0.5" D Steel (a high tensile steel) over the magazines and 3.75" NC on 0.5" D over the machinery. There was no turtledeck. The turret faceplate was 16", turret roof 7.25" and barbettes a maximum of 16". Nelson also moved the magazines below the shell rooms, which would be a continual feature of British battleship design from this point on.
The King George Vs were also ‘All or Nothing’ (mostly). They moved to an external belt which followed the contours of the hull. This was considered to provide greater protection against diving shell and maximised protected volume. It was rather tall at 23 ft 3 in. The belt was 15" over magazines and 14" over machinery, tapering to 5.5" and 4.5" at the bottom respectively. Deck armour was carried at Main Deck level - one deck higher than previous ships - and was 6" NC on 0.5" D over magazines and 5" NC on 0.5" D over machinery. Turret protection was reduced from the Nelsons to 13" faceplates and a 6" roof. Barbettes were a maximum of 13" thick on the beam. Full detail here:
The unbuilt Lions in their ‘as laid down’ guise largely followed the KGV scheme, but the main belt was a uniform 15". Turret protection was increased to 15" faceplates and barbettes had a maximum thickness of 15".
Vanguard also largely mirrored the KGVs, although in her case belt armour was reduced to 14" thick over magazines and 13" over machinery. Her deck, turret and barbette protection was the same thicknesses as KGV.
Obviously, how all of the above translates into the game is a different question…!
4 Likes
22 Batch 3 could be as well, because they (finally) remembered they could have a gun
needs to be done anyways naval needs a whole rework
im waiting for whole naval rework so we can get subs and super yamato and 16 inch or 20 inch bismarck montana etc
i wounder what would be more effective in game the most mad “lion” class design when it got upto 97000 tons and 18inch a belt but only 16inch guns or the N3 battle ships with 18 inch guns and a 15-16 inch belt