Yeah, thats my problem. Its great when you encounter 11.3s and 11.7s or even downtiers. You can fight them quite easily. When you find yourself facing 12.3s. Nothing you can do but hope your BVR hits. In SB, they gave it a BR in which 99% of the time. you are fighting 12.3s. You can never see a downtier. It has 2 fundamental problems
Ooft negative KD, yeah don’t know what you’re supposed to do with the Speys other than bomb trucking these days. Not exactly fun gameplay.
I think the Tornado would be a hell of a lot more aggreable of a plane if radar missiles weren’t in such an atrocious state with the absurd levels of multipath they currently encounter along with if it received the ability to mouse designate radar locks as I’ve suggested.
It could also really do with some AIM-9Li or AIM-9Li-1, so as to have a comparable IR missile to the 9M, as its kind of idiotic that gaijin added the best missiles to the best airframes and told everyone else to get bent and kick rocks…
If the SARH missiles performed better at low altitudes the Tornado would suffer more, not less
Having a functional RIO or some kind of advantage provided by the co-pilot would immensely help though and as much as I hate IRCCM missiles being a thing in air battles (at least with the current 16v16 matches and shitty map designs), it is ridiculous that something like the Tornado doesn’t get them, but the top of the line MiG-29s and F-16s do get them
How so? The primary role of the Tornado is in BVR combat, with its strong radar and decent missile with 4x to be used. The fact BVR is extremely unreliable at the moment, in large part due to the fact that gaijin has provided an extreme crutch for bad players to rely on in the way of excessive multipath just makes it easier for aircrafts to close into WVR and kill the Tornado.
Are you capable of reliably notching and kinematically dodging in the Tornado? Because I’m not and even if I was, I would become IR missile and gun food after pulling evasive maneuvers.
I’m not sure how having SARH missiles perform better at low altitudes would benefit the Tornado, when the competition has access to better missiles and similarly capable radar sets. If I’m missing something here I would be interested to know about it though
For Tornados, I only play the IDS ASSTA1, which I dont use in air RB, but as for when it comes to BVR, I prefer to play positional instead of getting into situations where I actively have to try to dodge missiles. That being said, I rarely have any issues actually dealing with radar missiles at any altitude, which is why the hyper crutch that is excessive multipath pisses me off. I dont think players should have a free pass to invalidate actual skill, particularly since with the shit spotting mechanics and excessive contrails, being at altitude is often just a detriment now.
Tornado has more SARH’s than anything except F-14’s in an uptier atm, and most things that fly better than it at or below its BR. Now that SARH’s give RWR launch warnings, you can just trash enemy missiles by defending appropriately and outlast enemies in BVR. If played appropriately, you should be able to outmatch or exceed enemies in BVR. It also means that the Tornado would have a better chance when taking head-on SARH shots at sub 10km range, which is important since the Tornado likely wont survive the merge.
Not to mention when people see the word “Tornado” they MUST chase you around the whole match
Like last night before I got off I literally had a J7D and J7E chase me for an ENTIRE MATCH around Southeastern City I clipped it and everything im gonna go and look at how long it went for before I died
I can’t quite get behind your way of thinking.
What planes do you usually use in ARB? Do you have the Tornado F.3 or ADV?
From my own experience with the F.3 (and the FG.1 before that) your claimed advantages either would just not apply or be negated by the fact that AIM-7Ms are about on par with the Skyflash SuperTEMPS and R-27ERs just clown on the SuperTEMPs.
In downtiers you would get a pretty big advantage as the SuperTEMPs and the Tornados radar are better than pretty much everything you meet in downtiers anyways. You know what problem that would create? The Tornado F.3/ADV couldn’t be 11.3 anymore as they would absolutely stomp in downtiers.
Also, I straight up wouldn’t want to play anything ranging from 10.0 to 10.7 anymore, as planes of those ratings would literally be just food for PD SARH slingers with no real means to retaliate.
Yeah, I agree with @KhorneFlakez1337 on this. The advantage the Skyflash ST might have is tiny. In a 10km joust with a Mig-29 at low alt, you will probably loose. Because their missile travels around 40-50% faster than yours does. And their missiles are less effected by ground clutter as they have the interial guidance. If you are firing at 10kms, in a joust, you have already lost the fight. If your missile fails to connect, then you are definetly dead, as they can turn around and catch up to you easily and you’ll never win in a turn fight
This last sentence is kind of the entire point of me saying that reducing the multipath crutch would be helpful to the Tornado.
It MIGHT lose the SARH joust (depending on factors such as launch range, and who fires first and how much sooner).
It WILL lose the merge.
There’s no world where making it easier for aircrafts to get into the merge with the Tornado is advantageous for the Tornado.
True and yeah, would be good to see multipathing fixed. Otherwise ARH are going to be totally useless. But the issue is, it would still likely be a level playing field, you’ll just go from a merge to a mutual kill.
I mean, I disagree fundamentally in that SARH or ARH shots need to be mutual kills. Theres a large degree of positioning and know-how involved in them, but as it stands, all this can be negated by just flying low.
Its also a reason why I advocate for the 2 seater mouse designated lock suggestion I made. This would make it easier for a Tornado to get a radar lock at all times, and that can make a difference.
I mean that if they fixed multipathing, so BVRs worked better at low alt. Then they wouldnt model it so that some BVRs worked better than others,. The Soviets would complain too hard about that (as I dont think they have the monopulse seeker) So they’d get it as well. Meaning you’d have nearly undefeatable BVRs fired in both directions.
Though it would mean the advantage of hugging the deck is eliminated, and then airframe/missile performance at alt comes into play
They can’t really fix multipathing, as it’s not a thing in WT. The effect is entirely caused by ground noise absorption, which is modeled to have a much larger effect ingame than it does IRL.
To make SARH and ARH missiles act more realistic they would have to start modeling different types of seekerheads and actually introduce multipath propagation. However, them acting more realistic would also mean SARH early missiles being even less reliable.
There are lots of balancing factors to consider as the different nations adopted inverse monopulse seekerheads at different times. ARB would probably become way less enjoyable as well due to the large lobbies, the shitty maps and the further and further reduced amount of actual interaction between players.
And at the end of all this, the Tornado would still be awful as a fighter
Soviets also have monopulse seeker, they thought the eaely AIM-7’s they captured had terible accuracy.
I guess one positive about whatever we get in december is itll remove the end of line costs…
Preferably for the FGR phantom because 28,500 rp for aim 9 fucking d’s is an absolute joke at 11.3…
If its another tornado then for the tornado and if its for a harrier then itll reduce the fg.1 end of line costs to something a little more reasonable for the still half useless modifications.
This tree, i just don’t think i’m skilled enough for these aircraft, flying them I find myself thinking ‘what an utterly pathetic tree’.
Kinda how im feeing about the Skyflash(es) mod costs on the Tornado
Just remember, you are doing this stock grind with nearly a years worth bug fixes and improvements.
The first radar was awful
The FM was a lot lot worse
It was slower
The first BVRs you got were standard Skyflash, not the DFs.
9Ls were a lot worse.
A lot of the hate for the F3 I think come from those first few months. These days its a poor excuse for a top tier aircraft, but at its correct BR its fine. It just needs to be replaced as Britains highest A2A aircraft. But a lot of people still remember what it was like new, and my god. It was barely 11.0 worthy in my opinion. The Phantoms were better in nearly everyway.
But it should have at least 2x Skyflash DF as stock (or even the standard Skyflash as stock)
I just hate that it can get bullied by aircraft even an entire br below it sometimes