Bring back Low Rank He ammunition

[Ghostmaxi]

[Would you like to see this in-game?]

• Yes
• No

I would like to suggest the re addition of He grenades to rank I and II for all vehicles.

Originally they were removed because they were “ineffective” and “people dont know how to use them, especially new players”. However, the game recently had its 11th birthday, so the majority of the playerbase will now have at least some experience.
Over time the damage models and how He grenades work has changed in game, Hull breach is gone and overpressure and general pressure damage mechanics are in place, making even smaller 37mm He grenades usable, especially at the lower ranks, where there are the most light and unarmored targets such as Trucks and halftracks are.

So besides beeing generally stronger duo pressure, in recent times even He grenades got low kinetic penetration, with which they may even penetrate thin gunshields and other material that may offer low protection. Some tanks dont even have Coaxial MGs, an He grenade could be an ersatz.

Another advantage would be greater effectiveness against slow and low flying planes.

The argument, that “players dont know how to handle and use them” is outdated and can be easily fixed by the addition to the Tutorials, the addition to the lower ranks only adds new to the game.

Many low Rank He grenades are even still in the Files, but just are not available to use.

However some guns are at higher ranks with He grenades that would also be found at the lower rank, in general here are some examples:

America:
The 37 mm guns:
The M63 SAPHEI shell, 0,73kg 792m/s 38g TnT filler 32mm/10m
Great against even against light Tanks.

Spoiler

Germany:
2,8/2,0 cm s.Pz.B. 41 → Sprgr. 41 0,091kg 900m/s 5,1g Np.10

3,7 cm KwK 34(t) L/40 → Spr.Gr.34 (t) 0,62kg 687m/s 27g Fp.02
3,7 cm KwK 38(t) L/48 → Spr.Gr.34 (t) 0,62kg 745m/s 27g Fp.02
3,7 cm Pak/KwK 36 L/45 → Spr.Gr.18 0,62kg 745m/s 29g Np.10 (49,3g TNTe)
3,7 cm Pak/KwK 36 L/45 → Spr.Gr.40 0,665 kg 780m/s 45g Np.10 (76,5g TNTe)

4,7 cm Pak(t)(Sf.) L/43,4 → Sprgr.36(t) 1,50kg 400m/s 180g Fp.02

5 cm KwK 38 L/42 → Sprgr.38 1,82kg 450m/s 200g Fp.02 und Np.10 (256g TNTe)

Russia:
4,5 cm Guns: → O-240 2,14 kg 335m/s 118g TNT

Spoiler

Britain:
4 cm 2 Pounder gun → Shell Mk.2 1,34kg 687m/s 85g TNT

Spoiler

And for the rest as well, these were just some examples.

[l2ulan]

I’m all in favour of non-meta ammunition being in the game, this includes the recently removed USSR 76mm shrapnel shell, and for example the canister shells lacking from high tier vehicles.

[OliverXRed]

@Ghostmaxi

2,8/2,0 cm s.Pz.B. 41 → Sprgr. 41 0,091kg 1400m/s? 51g Np.10 (By TM 9-1985-3 but i am certain they got an error and moved the “.” one too far right?

If it is the decimal point’s position you are talking about in regards to the mass of the shell, then it is most likely correct. Currently ingame, the mass of Pzgr.41 (the APCR shell of the s.Pz.B.41) is at 0,12kg, where it is made of tungsten carbide.

Where as the HE shell would be a HEF shell, with a filler weight of 5g PETN.

2.8 cm sPzB 41 | Ammunition

Image of how small the shell actually is

[Exocetta]

You totally missed who would benefit the most from it, the French 37mm SA 18 etc. who only get the APCR that is nearly useless but at least would have a chance to overpressure with the HE, which is 99% of what they carried IRL.

[Bruce_R1]

Totally agree with OP.

If new player exposure is a problem, make it a new tier 4 ammo mod. Reduces the other mod costs proportionately and makes it clear this may be of only questionable utility.

[Ghostmaxi]

I know the size of the shell and i did mean the weight of the filler. I just left it in, because i thought its a bit funny.

[EddieVanHalo]

Might it be a way to get new vehicles into the game where the 37 or similar was deemed to be to small and ineffective?

[Exocetta]

You mean like the entire French base 1.0 tree, so bad it had to be hidden from new players?

[EddieVanHalo]

Kind of what I am expecting to be honest.

[S3b5]

As far as I know, the M63 SAPHEI is supposed to be just HE-I. I would like to see that corrected, unless the reason they changed it to SAPHEI is because it uses a base fuse, then maybe change it to be HE-BF like the naval shells.

[Ghostmaxi]

As far as i remember, its something the british would call a Common pointed. So pretty much an high filler ap round without special hardening and base fuze.
It is indeed.

[Ghostmaxi]

It appears that Gaijin themselfs are allready slowly coming in our direction, considdering that they will add some new Tutorials in the next update as well as even had given more He grenades at the lower ranks (mainly more 37mm M63 grenades).

[KillaKiwi]

Any idea on the delay of the fuze?
It’s probably instantaneous, so not much armor penetration going on.

Spoiler

In-game the fuze settings are identical to APHE (9mm sensitivity, 1.2m delay), which shouldn’t be the case.

[Ghostmaxi]

No idea sry. But conciddering its usage to penetrate Obstacles such as Logs and Sandbags, idk.