Bradley spall in game M919 round modeled incorrectly

"Unlike tungsten, uranium is pyrophoric. It also has a lower melting point than tungsten. As a DU penetrator strikes a target, its surface temperature increases dramatically. This causes localized softening in what are known as “adiabatic shear bands” and a sloughing off of portions of the projectile’s surface. This keeps the tip sharp and prevents the mushrooming effect that occurs with tungsten.

When the DU penetrates the target vehicle, the larger fragments tend to chew up whatever is inside while the pyrophoricity of the uranium increases the likelihood that the vehicle’s fuel and/or ammunition will explode. The technical term used to describe these events is “behind-the-target effectiveness” - [color=#]404 Page Not Found | ORAU

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA361333.pdf - old documents on the round

image

image

[size=4]https://www.armimilitari.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/tm43-0001-27-small-cartridge.pdf[/size]

[color=#]In addition DU is very combustible and when the particles enter a vehicle with back to back shots entering creating sparks and fire effect should be implemented to add this effect. source -

More sources V

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/du-history.htm

https://www.armimilitari.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/tm43-0001-27-small-cartridge.pdf - @ page 284

https://jpeoaa.army.mil/Portals/94/JPEOAA/Documents/JPEOAAPortfolioBook_2017.pdf @ page 148

https://www.pnnl.gov/main/publications/external/technical_reports/PNNL-14168.pdf DU left over, images found at page 508

9 Likes

Your title claims armor spalling is incorrect, but the body of your topic doesn’t address spalling at all.
Your body is talking about ammunition fragmentation, not armor spalling.

3 Likes

i gave sources showing that the round should be giving a incendiary affect and adding sparks and fire within vehicle.

5 Likes

Does it not already?

That’s… Kinda what spall is

Not necessarily, yes it does have it modeled but in a bad way. It should be adding damage after spall. Remnants of the DU penetrators’ will be left in the air by the first couple rounds and they should catch on fire. In the documents they go through this by breaking down why DU is so combustible and how its effective against armor.

5 Likes

DU penetrators have less spalling and post-penetrative damage than tungsten ones precisely because they are self sharpening and decrease in diameter during penetration while most other materials (including tungsten) mushroom outwards, increasing in diameter and increasing the amount of fragmentation when the armour is breached.

1 Like

yes, that is true except for the less spall part. DU rounds burn and are insanely hot on impact, when these rounds hit the target they leave fragments of DU in the vehicle, both in the air and physical fragments that are very combustible. if multiple shots are being taken at the same spot the vehicle will begin to catch on fire on the inside. Tungsten do spread more but if DU is being fired into the crew compartment the crew and components should take a decent amount of fire damage. If directly impacted by a fragment it should be an instant part destroyed or crewman killed. When DU pens it doesn’t rely on physical blooming to spall, rather the DU catching the inside on fire and exploding fuel and ammo better than tungsten.

Which already happens, it shouldn’t create “fire” so to speak.

1st it doesn’t do that in game, second it should create a “fire” or incendiary effect. IN the sources i listed it talks about how DU is combustible and what it does ounce it interacts with the vehicles interior.

Depleted Uranium Penetrator Rounds | Museum of Radiation and Radioactivity This source goes on abt how there combustable

Okay, so you’re telling me that a sabot with ~4 mm of diameter is going to make metal catch fire?

Not to mention the incendiary effect would only be useful against a plane.

Its the volume, in the tests they did with 10 round intervals they found ruminants of the DU within the air of the vehicle and almost like a film or layer of DU particles over areas of where the round went through. If these particles where hit by a spark or even another fresh fragment it had a high change of combusting within the vehicle. This is mainly good against more open vehicles like bmps and btrs. Heavy more layered vehicles like the Leopards and really most mbts wouldn’t have this effect do much damage unless it was in a small compartment like the ammo holding or engine bay. Meaning if a bmp was hit with 1 round and it left a DU film or ruminants of the DU within the crew compartment the crew, fuel, ammo, and electrical components are all at risk to catch on fire. The DU is already insanely hot but with back to back shots hitting the vehicle it should set the area of spall on fire because of the DU being unstable and combusting.

That’s great, but if the spall is on fire, it means it’s burning material, which means the spall is small, however, it also means that when it hits a crew member, scalding burning hot radioactive material is seeping heat and radiation into the receiving persons system.

The flying spall isn’t what’s on fire, its the ruminants of the first shots that’s catching on fire. 2nd yes you are right burning hot metal would fly into the crew, Picture flying razor blades at 10,832 degrees Fahrenheit. Granted the spall would melt through anything it touches.

sparks wont do something to crew but this properties should affect stuff like electronics and stuff like ammo fuel tanks etc, quite frankly i wish this was a feature not only in this shell but on other DU shells and incendiary unit found in some apfsds too

no sparks wouldn’t do anything to the crew but when the vehicle itself is catching on fire around them from the DU combusting it should do damage.

yeah its what i would like to see, combustion of props around the tank aka wires and mostly systems and maybe fire and ammunition

the vehicles insides would be cooking, its a similar effect to white phosphor rounds and how they burned the crews lungs and skin upon patriation or impact.

here are some images of the DU and the amount left after impact,
image
image

as to how it could be implemented in game, i though of it as this


in this image the bmp 2 was shot with M919, if a second shot was fired what ever was impacted should take a light burning effect. Nothing to much but noticeable.

as seen in this example the most of the damage should be done to what’s closest to impact, which would be the crew on the 2s38.

Most of the DU would be found on what was in front of the rounds entry. So if its a fuel tank its going to be on the fuel tank or if its most crew (like in the 2s38 image) it should have a “burning damage” to the crew after each shot. Again doesn’t have to be much but at least noticeable.