Hello Gaijin Developers and Community,
I am writing to request a Battle Rating (BR) review for the Israeli variants of the SO.4050 Vautour IIA and IIN currently placed at Air RB 9.0.
Based on extensive gameplay data and performance analysis, these aircraft are significantly disadvantaged at 9.0 compared to their contemporaries. I propose adjusting their BR to 8.7 or even 8.3 to reflect their actual combat effectiveness.
Performance Disparity at 9.0 (Matchmaking Reality)
The Vautour at 9.0 primarily faces opponents at 9.0, with frequent uptiers to 9.3/9.7/10.0. This creates a challenging environment:
Primary Opponents (9.0 BR): Aircraft like the Su-7B/BMK, F-86H, MiG-19S, G.91R/Y, and A-4A dominate this bracket. These fighters combine high subsonic/supersonic speed with excellent maneuverability.
Speed Gap: The Vautour is strictly subsonic (~1,100 km/h). Against the Su-7B (Mach 1.7+) or MiG-19S (Mach 1.3+), it lacks the speed to control engagement distance. Once committed to a fight or spotted, disengagement is extremely difficult.
Maneuverability Gap: As a large twin-engine attack aircraft, the Vautour cannot match the turn performance or energy retention of single-engine fighters like the F-86H or G.91. In a turning fight, it becomes an easy target.
Uptier Threats (9.3+ BR): When uptiered, the Vautour faces AIM-9G/J, R-13M, or Shafrir-2 equipped aircraft like the F-4C, A-4E, or MiG-21F-13.
Missile Threat: These missiles feature all-aspect or improved rear-aspect engagement, higher maneuverability, and better flare resistance. The Vautour’s Shafrir-1 is limited to rear-aspect only, with weak tracking and easy counter by basic maneuvers.
No Defensive Suite: Lack of RWR means the Vautour cannot detect radar locks. Combined with no chaff/flare dispenser on standard loadouts, survivability against missile-armed opponents is critically low.
Weaponry & Avionics Limitations (Israeli Tree Context)
A critical issue affecting the Israeli tech tree is the “Imported Airframe, Outdated Weaponry” discrepancy.
Missile Tech: The Vautour IIA/IIN (Israel) relies on the Shafrir-1. At 9.0, opponents commonly carry AIM-9B/D/G or R-3S/R-13M, which have superior seeker heads, maneuverability, and countermeasure resistance. The Shafrir-1 struggles against flares and high-G maneuvers common at this BR.
Lack of RWR: Both variants lack a Radar Warning Receiver (RWR). At 9.0+, radar-guided threats and high-speed interceptors are common. Flying blind against radar locks puts the Vautour at a severe informational disadvantage compared to US/USSR counterparts.
Import Penalty: Many Israeli vehicles are imported French/US designs but retain the original BR while lacking the specific late-war upgrades (like advanced missiles or RWR) that justify that BR for the original owners.
Role & Statistical Analysis
Role Conflict: Classified as an attacker, the Vautour faces air superiority fighters that can outrun and out-turn it easily. It lacks the defensive suite to survive in an air RB environment dominated by missiles.
Payload vs. Survival: While it can carry 4× Shafrir-1 or heavy bomb loads, getting into a position to use them effectively is extremely difficult when opponents can engage from beyond visual range or disengage at will.
Statistical Performance: Community data suggests lower survival times and kill/death ratios for the Vautour compared to other 9.0 attackers (like the A-4 or Su-7B) which have better speed, missiles, or defensive tools.
Recommendation
To align with its actual combat performance and weapon technology level:
Primary Request: Lower Air RB BR from 9.0 → 8.7. Alternative: If 8.7 is not feasible due to queue times, 8.3 would better match its subsonic nature and early IR missile technology.
This adjustment would allow the Vautour to face opponents where its payload and twin-engine stability are assets, rather than liabilities against supersonic jets and advanced missiles.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Why are you specifying the Israeli Vautours
Also, how do you suppose a 7.7-8.7 will engage you?
Since AIM-9B is already present at 8.3, have you considered evaluating the 7.3 bracket?With AIM-9B entering at 8.3, the 8.7 BR might offer a more balanced environment for subsonic aircraft like the Vautour
Give the Vautour IIN the Shafrir 2 it tested (yes it’s real, all IAF Vautours tested both variants iirc, IIB that’s not ingame included), and keep it at 9.0 BR, dropping down the Vautour IIA to 8.7 to see how it handles before dropping it lower.
AIM-9B is only found on: Seahawk and F9F-8 at 8.3, and found on basically nothing at 8.7. It only starts to show up commonly at 9.0.
The only other missiles present at the BR are on the Javelin at 8.3 (which is both a rare plane as well as not very strong, certainly not a good counter to a Vautour) and the French interceptor Vautour which can’t effectively target other Vautours because the radar is early, basic, and can’t target low flying jets like Vautours…
meaning?
Are you seriously suggesting the Vautour should be 7.3? Please tell me this is not what you are saying.
I don’t think we need effectively what is AIM-9Ds at 9.0.
my bad ,I mean 8.7 would be more appropriate, but I think 8.3 missile theory would go to 7.3 xD
We already have them on a better platform for them being the Super Mystère B2 , that’s also at 9.0 ARB. They’re not a Aim-9D equivalent, as they’re worse than that missile in every regard except for having a gimble limit. If I had the option to be taking 4 Shafrir 2s or 4 Aim-9Ds on my A-4N, I’d be taking at the very least 3 9Ds always.
The Vautour IIs wouldn’t be the best platform for them, but still viable. If it over preforms it can go to 9.3 at the most.
We don’t need two Vautour IIs at the same BR, having one with their historical Shafrir 2s at a higher BR makes sense. Unless we do the funny and add a Vautour IIB with only Shafrir 1/2s and literally nothing else bc they didn’t use bombs in IAF service mwehehehe, me when funny/better sea vixen
That also isn’t balanced (the Saar), its just that nobody knows that jet exists and its in an unplayed tech tree.
They are an AIM-9D equivalent, why do you say they aren’t?
I don’t understand what you mean here.
Because they really aren’t. First, much less range, next they’re much slower. Third they are easily one flared and hardly flare resistant against any target at all. They’re also heavier but that don’t matter. It’s an older missile, and the only thing it has over the 9D is its fumble limit which the Aim-9D lacks. That alone isn’t enough for it to be considered an equivalent
This doesn’t check out looking at their statistics. The Shafrir 2 has extremely comparable, close to identical engines and mass.
See above
So… like every other missile?
I haven’t checked drag but their mass and motors are pretty much identical.
That’s actually the main thing iirc lol. Shafrir is a girthier missile, making it slower to accelerate and quicker to lose speed. The Aim-9D also has some really favorable drag stats giving it some really nice range. Best way to see for yourself is the earlier mentioned Ayit. It has a bigger warhead too, so that’s nice, but it’s more than what’s necessary for most fighters
The Aim-9D is quite the flare resistant missile for what it is. It can go through flares on some of the hotter planes, while the Shafrir and all earlier missile are unable to make it through a single flare on some of the more hotter targets.Although if we’re comparing these missiles at this lower BR it doesn’t matter since most are flareless after all
I am an extremely experienced player. I say this as a reference to why I can say what I’m about to say. Every single non-IRCCM missile in this game is a 1 flare. I do not understand where people get this idea that this or this irccm missile is flare resistant. You can say a 9J is more flare resistant than the R-60. The 9J, 99% of the time, will still go for the first flare fired.
But yes:
The problem is you are putting missiles that auto-kill any flareless jet at 9.0 facing korean era jets.