BR-471B over performs against added armor

APDS is modeled to lose penetration on contact with multiple pieces why isn’t tumbling modeled the same way? This round should not be able to penetrate multiple slats of armor.

1 Like

Keep in mind that both the APCR and the first generation APDS tended to break when they hit spaced armor, it is something realistic, what is a mistake in the game is that when penetrating with an APCR or APDS the damage should be enormous Since when piercing, the bullet would break into small pieces of tungsten that would bounce around inside the tank at high speed.

1 Like

Yes, which is why I want the same scrutiny applied to BR-471B which tumbles. I don’t think Gaijin is capable of modeling round tumbling but I think they can do better than letting a WW2 era round lolpen sloped armor without taking in to account very real ballistic effects.

1 Like

That has already been talked about enough, and the BR 412B would be more or less real, since due to the shape of the tip of the bullet it would be more or less good against inclined armor, and also being made of steel it would not break as much against spaced armor. The only thing that would be strange is the penetration at extreme angles, although as some who know in the forum say, the problem at extreme angles is with the other projectiles, which are underperforming.

The shape of the round makes it very effective against sloped armor. That is why not having tumbling modeled means it can lolpen every tank at its BR range. I don’t think that is balanced. I also don’t think the tanks should move up in BR.

I want the rounds to be modeled as correctly as possible, currently Gaijin isn’t even trying.

1 Like

The state of the American 90mm cannon bullets is more dramatic, which in reality could pierce the panther, especially the T33, but in the game it cannot pierce the panther even at 20 meters.

1 Like

In the game BR-471B will penetrate this armor past 1 km if my memory doesn’t fail me.


If you want someone to blame for soviet rounds over performing, blame Lorrin and Rexford, the authors of “WW2: Ballistics and Gunnery” book.

They took the figure of 2500m from a soviet source as the distance at which the 122mm can penetrate the Panthers glacis at face value, without cross referencing it with data about performance of soviet shell at high obliquity from other sources and extrapolated this to other calibers. And then Gaijin lazy devs took these values and put them into the game.


Okay, the first thing is that I was wrong, we were talking about the BR-471B and I put BR-412B.
Regarding penetration, you are absolutely right, I have tried and with the BR-471B it will penetrate at 1000 meters, what I have noticed is that when piercing the first two plates the bullet does not deviate upwards because it is piercing inclined plates. I wouldn’t mind if gaijin doesn’t have it implemented.
I think that through penetration it could pierce the super pershing, what happens is that those spaced armor deflects the bullet, causing it to lose a lot of penetration since it dissipates a lot of kinetic energy.

It also has to be considered that even steel projectiles do shatter and break apart, particularly the case with Russian WW2 projectiles. I am fairly certain that it is this shattering that actually gives them superior performance against sloped armor, but it means that against spaced armor, when the projectile reaches the main armor, it’s already sustained a lot of “damage”, and cannot go further.

It could also be, I suppose it would be the sum of several factors, that the spaced armor deflects the trajectory, that the projectile breaks due to the quality of the armor.

On the topic of spaced armour:



36in. is 914mm LoS or equivalently 524mm gap at 0°. Looks like the side armour of some western tank with heavy side skirts. Adding those 10mm skirt added almost ±15° to the side immunity(see 60mm/70° target) against this shell.

1 Like

It wasn’t about the shape. It was about the nose breaking apart and not transferring rotational force to the rest of the projectile to the same extent as projectiles that stayed in 1 piece did. Americans achieved similar thing with one of their designs,nwhere nose was expected to break off on angled impacts, inceeasing angled penetration.
Of course the same thing also made soviet shells penetrate less when closer to vertical because the shell breaking apart was no longer a good thing in sich circumstances. But this isn’t really modelled I’m afraid.

It seems that there are many nuances in penetrations that gaijin does not take into account, causing many bullets to pierce more or less than they should.