that they are hitting and shooting that far isn’t entirely what this thread is about. while it is annoying especially for some ships like the amagi that gets its numerous secondaries (that have very little armor tbf) set on fire continously, sometimes with every shot thats incoming, this thread is about that under certain circumstances those bots get lots of kills without actually doing meaningful damage to a ship that a real player has dealt 95 % or all damage that lead to its destruction to.
All the reports in the bug reporting system that are trying to adress that problem get labelled “not a bug” in the timespan of 30 min to a couple of hours. Apparently you can’t help the guy that’s on a sinking ship but decides to turn a blind eye (pun intended)
In this case, it appears the AI escort T22 may somehow have landed a HE-VT shot on the Texas from 15km away right after being destroyed by the player’s Bismarck salvo… and for that, the T22 got credit instead of the player.
This is outrageous enough normally; but even more so it is when bots, even AI fleet escorts, are able to deny player kills like this.
This has been reported over and over again, and claimed to be “working as intended”.
We need to change this! With the addition of a severe damaga mechanic triggered after either dealing 50% of crew damage on a ship, or causing catastrophic ammo detonations.
Gaijin has claimed in the past that “this is not a problem, because most Naval rewards are attributed to damage and not kill credits”; however, this clip shows why it IS still a problem; the explosion that led to the destruction of the ship, and therefore all of the damage, was attributed to some AI escort T22 instead of the player; so all of the damage-reliant rewards were stolen too.
Welcome to War Thunder during the Leviathans patch which is centered around Naval, trying to actually play Naval. Ridicolous. One would think it is in the snails own interest to have a working game, their product, but I’m actually not too sure if they actually care
I put a minute more thoughts into it and actually:
Why not award the kill to the player/bot or whatever that actually killed the enemy ship. Now at what point is a ship dead?
-Fatal Ammo explosion
-Sinking due to loss of buoyancy
-Sinking due to loss of sinking protection (more than 3 hull compartments turned black)
-or crew below the crew interchangeability threshold (in game then shown as 0 % crew) while its actually influenced by the crew skill which determines the minimal amount of crew you can have left before the ship is counted as “dead” (the higher the skill the longer it basically takes to get to 0%)
Ammo explosion (fatal one not the one that explodes the shell rooms or a magazine explosion that just leads to destroyed compartments and water intake - though im not sure if a magazine explosion is always fatal): Kill obviously goes to the guy that shot the shell that lead to the fatal explosion. And that should also be the same for fires in the barbettes. If a player shot the ammo elevator in the barbettes on fire which then leads to a fatal ammo explosion and/or sinking of the ship the player that first set the fire should get the kill (thats actually where the kill attribute system struggles atm it feels like. as it is now it feels like barbettes get set on fire and while the player is or is not trying to extinguish, the ship gets hit by a bot. which now counts as last “critical damage” to the ship which then explodes. so the last "critical damage must have exploded it and the kill gets accounted to the last player/bot that dealt critical damage, which is obiously wrong)
Sinking through buoyancy loss (Unpatched holes in the hull the player couldnt repair): Bit more complicated but kill should got to the player that caused the most flooding, not the one that shot the last hole in
Sinking due to loss of sinking Protection: Kill goes to the player that turned the 4th compartment black
“dead” due to crew loss: well thats probably the most complicated. But Kill should go to the player that caused the most crew loss? Obviously complicated cause then you can have an enemy ship running around thats still perfectly capable of dealing a lot of damage and be a big threat even with 10% crew not being any less dangerous when ignored. and needs to be taken out. So you would need something between player that drained the last crew and player that drained the most crew.
Assists obviously go to each player according to how much damage they dealt (at least that’s somehow working in game at the moment i hope?)
It’s all bullcrap when the kill itself gets a large chunk of the reward, here’s a clip where I detonated a Hyuuga and made her sink rapidly to death but the kill goes to some Bot Helgoland. What do I get? 23 mission points and a few scraps of damage points. (The replay is kinda broken.)
Haha thats so hilarious. Man how that makes me wanna play some top tier naval rb.
They should rename the mode to killsteal battles or sth. Did they actually put any thought into this?
How can you handle the credit mechanics in a mode where you sometimes shoot at the same enemy for multiple minutes in exciting and skill dependent (as long as youre not facing a soyuz) angling, maneuvering and targeting brawls with a mechanic that then, 5 seconds before one of them finally sinks/explodes does this:
Quote Bug Reporting Manager: “In ship battles there are no critical hits or severe damage mechanics, and therefore the kill goes to the last one to deal damage”
And somehow think that this is no problem? Just close the issue it will fade away…wtf…
What I find odd is that they seem to have at least somewhat realized this is a problem with fatal flooding, and therefore track who caused it. For example, I’ve shot many ships with Poltava’s high filler shells and received the kill credit for flooding, even if other bots were shooting the target at the time.
However, it doesn’t seem to keep track of who set the fatal fire. I see this all the time because bots are a lot worse at damage control than players. Therefore, I will often shoot straight for the barbettes, only for the kill to be stolen by an AI every time. I know the target died from a magazine explosion because I can either see the boom or see the kill icon, but rarely if ever receive more than an assist. This has totally messed up my rewards on US standards which don’t have the DPM or filler to quickly get crew kills. I will usually have double the assists as kills due to this problem.
Same here, it gets extremely annoying and knowing that Gaijin just won’t do anything about it is even more annoying. I also got one today where I set the ammo elevator of a Gneisenau on fire and the fire detonated the magazine, but an AI Scharnhorst got the kill instead…
They don’t do anything about it because they think rewards are proportionate to damage dealt dismissing any need for a proper kill system. Now that may be true for when you pepper your target and damage all the modules to try to deplete crew, the rewards seems to be proportionate to damage in that scenario as I’ve seen differing sl gain based on how damaged the vessel I finished off previously was, though I can’t say the same for Mission score and Damage point as those tend to lean more towards the one that got the kill.
But most of us mostly try to go for the Ammo storages, I’ve set fires to ammo elevators resulting in my target blowing up and me getting an assist because a bot or someone else landed a hit between when I set the fire and the target blowing up only walking away with few scraps of rewards because the game thinks I haven’t done much cause I only damage one module denying me of majority of the rewards. Same goes for when you detonate shellrooms and causing rapid flooding that kills your target, if a bot or a player lands a hit while your target is in the process of sinking you’ll be denied of a kill.
Taht happening cause damage from fires and damage from ammo explosions did not count as your damage it’s not even getting you score points. You could create a proposal here in suggestion section to change that.
They want to sell you premium vehicles and accounts… +kills per player=faster progresion = (- premium sales)… progression is a very important component on gayjin bussines model. So this contributes to slow down the progression on “relatively small naval trees”… they want you to buy 80 USD prems.
There’s also the problem with damage point distribution when you get your kill stolen, but it seems to be particularly egregious for large ships like BBs, and to some extent the larger cruisers.
For smaller vessels like coastal ones and destroyers, the amount of damage point with regards to how much damage you’ve dealt seems a lot more “fair”.
Even if you get your kill stolen, out of the 2200 points you would have gotten (assuming you did all the damage), you might get 1900, 2000 or so, which is pretty “fair”.
You could come out of a game with 7 assists and still have 10,000 damage points.
But in the case of large ships, you might only get 600 points or so when your kill gets stolen.
It seems as though the crew percentage and damage points aren’t in a 1:1 proportion (I have my suspicions on why it doesn’t but I can’t fully prove them yet), or that a larger portion of the damage points is locked behind securing the kill.
I think this is relatively easy to test:
Play a match with a squad mate at low tier, find an isolated target, damage it until ~10% crew, records how much damage points you’ve received from that, have your squad mate finish it off, record how much you both got from that.
Then repeat this but in a BB match.
You could also record how many points you got per crew percentage taken out, maybe every (good) salvo, but that would be more tedious.
It happens even with kills done purely by crew loss from modules and compartments. It’s really just that for large ships, taking out a certain percentage of the crew doesn’t give you an equal percentage of the 2200 points a ship is worth.
Even if you take out 80% of the crew, you’re not getting 1760 damage points. You might only get 600, and only get the rest of the points if you get the kill.
Similarly you can try stealing kills from targets that are at ~10% crew, and find that you’re getting way more than the ~200 or so points you’d expect to get.
