[Would you like to see this in-game?]
AH-64E Apache Guardian
Hello, and welcome to my suggestion for the AH-64E Apache in British Service! I feel this has a strong precedent to come to game in the future as it is currently the best helicopter that the British Army uses. Massive Credits to @_Froge for making the Old forums suggestion that gave me most of the Info I needed for this.
The Apache Guardian is the Latest variation of the Famous AH-64 Attack Helicopter, it incorporates a plethora of upgrades over the Previous models and is currently considered to be one of the most advanced helicopters in service worldwide.
As of 2020 the British Army has been looking to upgrade its Current AgustaWestland Apache’s to AH-64E standard, the current WAH-64s are being upgraded by Boeing at a steady pace to Unmodified E standard.
The first AH-64Es were delivered in November 2020 and as of early 2023 have 16 out of 50 ordered upgrades in service, they currently operate very similar armament to the older Apache’s, with them Using Hellfire’s, JAGM and Hydra Rockets.
The Current Fleet is set to be fully upgraded by the end of 2024, and is indented to serve for decades to come expecting to serve well into the 2040s with current evaluations for replacement being around 2050.
British Army troops performing a combat refuel during training in 2022
An AH-64E after its delivery to the British Army in 2021
One of the First Apache’s to enter service in 2022
An Apache during its Upgrades at Boeing in 2020
(Info taken directly from Boeings website)
|48.16 ft. (14.68 m)
|15.49 ft. (4.72 m)
|48 ft. (14.63 m)
|Primary Mission Gross Weight
|15,075 lb. (6,838 kg)
|Maximum Operating Weight
|23,000 lb. (10,432 kg)
|Maximum Rate of Climb
|2,800+ ft. (853+ m) per minute
|Maximum Level Flight Speed
|150+ knots (279+ kph)
|20,000 ft. (6,096 m)
|16 HELLFIRE missiles, Brimstone or JAGM; 76 2.75-inch rockets and 1,200 30 mm chain gun rounds
|Rate of Fire
|600-650 rounds per minute
Place in Game
As the Ground trees progress more and more into the modern era it will become necessary for the Heli trees to keep up, this means that Helicopters like this will have to be added to game in the future to combat the Advances in ground for various nations.
in terms of BR I would expect this would be 12.3 minimum given its advanced weaponry and subsystems that would make it overpowered in a current environment however it is a MUST when the game is ready for such aircraft given its place as the Future of the British Army Air Corps
List of equipment of the British Army - Wikipedia
AH-64E Apache in UK Service - Passed for Consideration - War Thunder - Official Forum
+1！This is what Brits helicopter TT should have for final！
It can also receive Brimstone as Brimstone was tested, but then was not selected. Can receive the JAGM too.
Ah sh*t just realised that, cheers!
No worries dude, might as well make it unique from any of the American ones. I’m surprised we moved away from the RR engines now though.
Money, thats why
The MOD is now at the stage where we cant afford domestic development for all 3 armed forces, hence why we are basically just getting our current ones rebuilt to US standard rather than getting our own ones.
That and the fact we kinda killed Westland and then AgustaWestland to the point its now more italian than british
While this should obviously be added to the British tree let’s not forget that this should obviously also be added to the US tree, it is of course an American helicopter. The Brits’ export version is the most similar version to the US’s version. I have flown both the US Echo model and the Block II D model. In flight school ground instruction, the Brits are allowed to sit in on almost all the same classified classroom material as American students. Dutch, Saudis, and others for example, are not allowed to sit in on the same classified instruction as the Brits. At the very least, the US tree should see the introduction of the Block II D model with the improved 701D engine and ASE suite, and specifically the ASPI exhaust. Additionally, let’s not forget all Apaches with an FCR should obviously be given access to the AGM-114L, as the two were made to go hand-in-hand. I’m sorry Gaijin but the “too overpowered” excuse for the 114Ls simply won’t fly anymore. Countless other nations now have fire and forget missiles and the Apache does deserve its. Now of course there is the option to actually make the FCR and 114Ls more complicated to use than say using Spikes. Users should be expected to be in the correct sight selection (FCR, rather than TADS or HMD), FCR targeting mode (ie: GTM, rather than ATM or ASM), and have to have AGM-114Ls selected. This could be a legitimate game balance function. Although, one could still use 114Ls with the TADS (or the normal helicopter gunner view) as the line of sight, as you normally do with the other fire and forget carriers, and do what’s called a TADS to RF handover. This method would actually require the use of the laser with the 114Ls for the missile to receive its targeting data.
None of this information is classified or sensitive. Everything I’ve talked about here in terms of weaponry and weaponeering is already something that’s a gameplay feature in a game like DCS.
Edit: Just wanted to point out main differences of the D and E that we would see in game. All E models have improved transmissions and longer rotor blades. The combination of these two features means that E models have a MUCH better power margin and you could almost never droop the rotor with max power applied, even fully loaded in a hot environment. The E models all have the improved GE T701D engines. And just a final side note: not ALL of the US Block II D models have these engines, some still run off the 701Cs. As such, the 701D could be an unlockable modification in, say tier 4 of a hypothetical US Block II D. Additionally, while not all US Block II D models have the 701D engines, ALL US Block II D models have the ASPI exhaust, which severely decreases the IR signature of the Apache. US, UK, and Japanese D models should have the ability to install the ASPI as a modification, I have not been able to find evidence of the Saraph equipped with it. A quick Google search will show evidence of legitimate photos with the respective nations’ Apaches with the ASPI installed.
Not sure if it will retain Starstreak integration but if it does, it can also receive Martlet.
It should not have Starstreak as Starstreak was only experimentally fitted to the AH Mk1 (and American Apaches, but for some reason not in-game), so the AH-64E having it 20 years later is impossible - AND it has the missile warning systems mounted on the wingtips, so it’s doubly impossible for it to equip Starstreaks.
It’s honestly very surprising for me to see that the British AH-64E also has the wingtip mounted sensors, when the AH Mk1 has them mounted on the tail - leaving the wingtips free for Stingers or something else. Especially interesting is that the Korean AH-64E is specifically built to have the wingtips free for Stingers, with the MWS sensors mounted on the tail.
Do they carry any other self-defence missiles or are they now limited to requiring CAP support.
I’ve updated my comment, all AH-64E’s can carry Stingers UNDER the wing, but only the Korean AH-64E can carry Stingers on the wingtips (as far as I know).
South Korean AH-64E for reference, notice the Stingers on the wingtips, with MWS sensors on the front and on tail:
Cheers, and I am also very surprised at the location of the sensors as the wingtip launchers would’ve been exceptionally useful, presumably British doctrine means they won’t be operating without air dominance.
Keep in mind that the only sensors that are usually mounted on the wingtips are two of the CMWS sensors. These two rearward facing sensors have the ability to be mounted on the tailboom along with the rest of the laser detector set and countermeasure dispensers.
I assume, just like the US, that the Brits do operate their Apaches off of a similar doctrine to the US of already having established air dominance. Not to say any of these Apaches can’t be instantly retrofitted with A2A. There is still an air-to-air switch on the weapon action switch and the processors are still able to recognize the weapons.
All Apaches A to E still have the internals and rigging to mount wingtip A2A
Possibly, but I cannot find any evidence of US or British AH-64E’s being able to mount Stingers on the wingtips and having the sensors mounted on the tail.
However, I think the best option would be to model all future AH-64E’s based on the Korean one like described above.
Well take it from someone who has been flying them for a minute lol. They are manufactured at the plant in Arizona all the same way. They are all built to be able to mount wingtip weapons, but that sort of thing hasn’t been done for ages on either US or UK Apaches, which is likely why you will not find photo evidence of it
I suppose it’s a case of it being fitted for but not with, though I highly doubt we’ll be able to find evidence to support or dismiss these claims. Either way, Gaijin can take some leeway on this as they have with other vehicles, and can be added to both the American and British AH-64Es, in the event that such a feature is added.