I’m seeing this forum right now and I’m seeing comments about the 30SM2 being too powerful. And about once in every 30 posts about a “Russian connection,” someone will mention something about the Rafale.
Yeah, obviously, that’s what I’m saying as well…
What ?
BMPT-72 had 1.69 K/D in December and went down to 1.41 K/D in January.
10.0 - 11.3 exploded in WR due to BMPTs being there and getting downtiered a lot when they were at 11.3.
12.7 went from 50.5% to 54.5% WRs in your time period, most of which happened in March probably due to SM-SV being added to the game. Who would have thought that a 12.7 addition would impact 12.7 much more than some 11.3 one, am I right ?
Well then youre just late to the party. The Rafale was a big topic since its release and it isnt now, because currently (love it when people dont know how to look at current stats) it doesnt have a 65% winrate, its at 56% with the SU30SM2 being only 2% behind on almost 4 times the playrate.
KD isnt the best stat to use, its literally possible to inflate or deflate the value without basically doing anything, like I said before you can inflate the stat by just waiting for spawn campers to show on map then spawn and kill 2+ and your KPS goes up, KPD might be a better stat but its still possible to be skewed due to lower skilled players bringing it down.
W/R is harder to do because it requires 2 elements, spawning the vehicle THEN actually winning the match for it to count, both stats are not great regardless but its better than KDR
Not really, SV-SM barely has matches compared to a lot of other vehicles so I doubt that alone has caused a 4%+ spike, granted it could be a mix but the heat map at least for BRs below 12.7 do show that while BMPT stats might be in decline from launch, its still having significant impacts on overall match wins which you dont want, not when some nations are now back into the 40% ranges
Why look at win percentage when there are double mechanics?
In my understanding, you need to look at the respawn/kill ratio.
But it has the highest winrate and highest KD of all 12.7 vehicles in March. Its absolutely feasible that that addition together with the nerfs to Japan and France are enough for that spike. But the April stats will of course paint a clearer picture.
Yes, decompression lowered the win rate. But that happened to all nations overall. It didn’t eliminate opportunities. The Thunder Cup is now overwhelmingly played on Rafaels and Typhoons. I think they know something about this game. But for some reason, everyone’s demanding a higher Su30sm/2 rating.
If you look at how many games its played, you can easily deduce its impact with such W/R is not enough to cause a 4-5% spike, if it had like 500k matches then yes I would agree but barely a 200k isnt enough to curb a W/R that high when you compare it too other vehicles that have 3x+ the amount of games played.
W/R is harder to curb with lower matches unless the W/R is 100% constant but there would still need to be enough to cause that change.
I’m not sure if i understand this correctly
Yes many people have complained about Rafale overperforming, especially during 2025, that’s why the Rafale thread is already on part 2 as of today.
Were their complaints justified ? Absolutely.
Did some people try to defend its position in game like the BMPT currently ? Yes, unfotunately.
Only recently with the addition of AESA to all top tiers and more long range HOBS (R-77-1) did the balance get somewhat better
The double system makes it harder to skew the results… KD can be skewed up or down irrespective of W/R
I mean, Rafael now has the best flight characteristics, the best MICA missile. But even so, everyone tells horror stories about the “strongest Russians.”
If a plane rips its wings because it cant stand its own afterburner at low alt I would not say that this plane has the best flight characteristics
Impact that their stats received when going from 10.3 to 11.3 is easily seen, so ideas of placing them to 12.7 (which is more than a full BR increase) are just nuts.
They were busted at 10.3, but that’s why they got moved up a full BR in less than a month.
They’d now have to be equally busted as before to receive yet another full BR increase that some in here want.
They’re closing the doors on that whole BMPT BR increase thing. Just compare their notes from changes in December and May.
Because the vehicles turned out to be very effective, it’s possible that the BR increase to 10.7 might not be enough for them to become balanced. We will continue to monitor them and will make changes if needed.
However, we’ve looked at the statistics again, and the data shows that increasing them by one step is enough at the moment, especially due to the fact that they will now encounter vehicles with the maximum Battle Rating of 12.7 in battles. Rest assured, we’ll continue to monitor their efficiency and will make further changes if needed.
Compare that last picture I’ve sent you to this one. One is barely talked about and another is perceived as ender of worlds, all the while their stats being almost identical with both being popular vehicles from major nations.
For that WR argument, I already said that lineups play a large part in WRs.
What will something like Germany throw at plethora USSR vehicles at 11.0 - 11.7 ? Maybe PUMA and FlaRakRad paired with a 2A4 ?
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not really in air RB no
The Su recently added also has far more missiles with a longer reach and the ability to give datalink while in the notch, not something that can be underestimated.
I will also remind you that the absence of “french bias” in the Rafale thread was purely due to the fact that Rafale was that one isolated meta defining vehicle every tree gets in a while.
Russia had :
2S6 (in its prime, was sitting at top tier along something like the Roland)
Ka-50 / 52
Pantsir S1
T-80BVM (in its prime)
BMPT
MI28MN
Pantsir SM-SV
everything carrying KH38MTs
Kronshtadt when it came out
Sovetsky Soyuz
SKR-7
No other tree has that amount of meta definfing vehicle added over such a short span of time across basically every vehicle category available in game
Yes but you have to factor in that the Pantsir only got added on the 18th so those games are concentrated over much less of the month compared to the other vehicles.
Still better than WR.
This is only possible on vehicles with very low play counts or if you can somehow persuade thousands of players to strictly act in such a way, but good luck with that I guess.
And by the way, I was talking about K/D, not K/S.
BMPTs got up to 11.3 in mid January.
Don’t tell me people forgot to take it out in top tier in all of February, as by far the biggest spike of almost 4% WR happened in March. Must be that people are getting senile and only thought about doing that a full month and a half later.
If BMPTs were mostly to blame for that spike it should’ve happened in February, not March.
GNSS not availible to r77-1.
6 years with eurocopter with PARS
The only playable helicopter in the entire Soviet branch.
The only way to defend against space bombing. If you remember, at that time, the Soviets only had the Su-25 in CAS. At the time, the F-16 was dropping bombs from space. Unfair… dont let me destroy hole team with my GBUs… how dare u
2a6 will beat this in everything. I don’t know what it has to do with it.
Real Russian injustice over how many years?
its not a heli problem, rocket only
I don’t understand this at all, now all nations have strong air defense for 70 points, even for those who haven’t pumped it up.
Before this, AGM dominated for 2 years.
Maybe because there are only two tech trees in the game? NATO and Russia? It doesn’t matter that NATO is divided into so many nations, while Russia only has one.
No they don’t, performance comparison is not equal over all BRs.
Yeah they’re trying to close the door but they still didn’t rule out further changes.
Which picture?
Yeah but what is a lineup if not the sum off the vehicles at that BR? If the rest doesn’t have anything to challenge it at that BR then the BMPTs shouldn’t be at that BR. And as I’ve already shown, looking at saturation regarding russia the BMPTs have to have regularly played higher BRs so they’re not stomping 11.0 Pumas but 11.7 Fujis, M1A1s, Khalid’s and probably even 12.0s.
Doesn’t matter when you can guide in the notch.
Yes, one of the few examples where russia wasn’t top dog. I didn’t say they don’t exist, but they are more rare, and more importantly, scattered across multiple nations
Yeah that tells me everything i need to know i suppose… Wonder how many helis you would find “playable” in other trees when KAs were top dogs
mind reminding me again what missiles the Su-25 could carry ?
Well seeing how its going, almost half a year and counting. I don’t have high expectations considering gaijin’s track record on the matter
Whatever, it is still a problem
Is BUK strong in your opinion ?
If you answer no : the rest is similar, except with less range, so don’t bother carrying the argument further
If you answer yes : then Pantsir SM-SV was unecessary and overkill.
Before this, everyone had CAS too strong for high end AAs, not just the US.
Some jokes just write themselves, don’t they ?
It matters because you can’t spawn vehicles of multiples nations in one match. That’s basic logic, i shouldn’t have to explain this.
And let’s not mention the historical (or ahistorical rather) aspects (BMPT disconnected belt, KH38MT not existing irl, same for Sovestky soyuz or Kronshtadt, russian MBT / BMPT caroussel not spalling)
“NATO” or “western” is also somewhat generic and doesn’t really mean anything, since multiple nations are in the same boat as the rest and aren’t in nato (Japan, China, Israel)
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Yeah the argument on the bmpt 72 its nonexistant the comparisons aré always, “if” “when” but they aré never in present and when confronted and told that stats aré obviously inflated numbers from premium players he wants to deviate the theme of conversation because there Is not much of base to stand on, except “oh its tt counterpart its better” its rather obvious its just not an argument in good faith and its mostly cope