BMPT/72 BR Topic

[oXEnkryptedXo]

First and foremost I’d like to know what server you play on because those were the most barren of BMPT battles I’ve ever seen since this update, only 3 of those battles had 2 BMPTs alive at any given moment and a lot of them you never had the chance to engage them because you were killed by other stuff first (meanwhile I can hear 4 firing like goobers as soon as my match starts, or maybe 3 and a normal BMP)… Second I imagine you’ve had very little interaction with them because after your MBT death you go on the AA offensive with the Type 03, Type 87, and the squadron RCV (since the TT version can’t lock aircraft) which yeah, would greatly limit your presence in the midfield where the BMPTs are until they push your spawn, which you’re typically already out of the match by then.

@Zulizia

Then go ahead and pull up my replays, I can tell you not all of them are amazing but from my experience I don’t really have an issue with the BMPT at (mainly) 13.0 Japan. When I was dying, it was mostly just due to my bad positioning, overcommits or running out of darts in my ready rack.

Your deaths to the BMPTs you did manage to interact with weren’t bad positioning, one was basically outside your spawn and hit you with an ATGM for the instagib, the other you were trying to get a shot off on him from behind cover but because the Type 10/TKX armour is basically curtains he just straight up melted you through the face.

@Zulizia

If its the Breslau game, yeah I wanted to try out slinging Kh-38ML from the airfield. If you look at my stats in the last week, I’ve barely touched light vehicles in Japan. 22 Games w/ TKX.

I wasn’t even aware of the literal ML slinging from the airfield, only further makes me dislike the RU handholding to be able to fling these without line of sight and get kills 6 seconds from leaving the airfield and then just returning.

@Zulizia

Not to mention my KD w/ the TKX is 54/22 *within the last week. You don’t get 22 deaths in 22 games sitting in spawn and spamming Su-30MKM (which is only in 11 matches, so clearly not my main goal.)

I wager this wasn’t from lack of trying but more you being farmed out of spawn, like the rest of us, by the 2 LMUR slingers and the Su30s.

I’m not attempting to shame anyone, but I wish people would present more realistic interactions.

[WEDGE101]

Ah yes the double spall liner and the magic APFSDS that doesn’t do any damage to crew or ammo, so glad this game is one sided to one nation -=-

[Zulizia]

@oXEnkryptedXo

First and foremost I’d like to know what server you play on because those were the most barren of BMPT battles I’ve ever seen since this update,

EU/NA. In the last week or so I’ve not seen nearly as much BMPTs at top tier because they simply aren’t that oppressive in my games. The Kh-38 and LMURs are the obvious oppressors to me, not the BMPT at top tier.

@oXEnkryptedXo

I wasn’t even aware of the literal ML slinging from the airfield, only further makes me dislike the RU handholding to be able to fling these without line of sight and get kills 6 seconds from leaving the airfield and then just returning.

It is certainly stupid, but ML slinging is only really useful against AA and Helipad so I don’t feel nearly as bad just destroying the entire map with Kh-38MT.

@oXEnkryptedXo

but more you being farmed out of spawn, like the rest of us, by the 2 LMUR slingers and the Su30s.

As far as I recall, my best games I was far from my spawn and deep in the battlefield. Those matches where I was accumulating almost 10 kills with one (or no) deaths.

@oXEnkryptedXo

Your deaths to the BMPTs you did manage to interact with weren’t bad positioning,

Not specifically deaths to the BMPTs, just in general.

@oXEnkryptedXo

I’m not attempting to shame anyone, but I wish people would present more realistic interactions.

Except all of these interactions happened in real games, with real players, with me playing a real vehicle against mainly USSR. Are you implying my interactions are not realistic because they don’t line up with yours? Not to mention you implying earlier that my whole playstyle revolves around getting Kh-38s as soon as I can- which simply isn’t true. Or that I simply “sit in spawn sniping”. You say you aren’t trying to shame me but you’re making assumptions about me that simply aren’t true, then saying my interactions aren’t realistic? How much more realistic can they get?

[oXEnkryptedXo]

Of the videos I did view ( which was almost 2 and a half pages worth) your interaction with BMPTs is extremely limited, that’s the unrealistic aspect of “These vehicles aren’t an issue for me” the claim is shaped by you have almost non-existent interactions with the specific vehicle, you’re mostly being killed by T80s/T72s/LMUR so of course if you aren’t sat face to face with the vehicle in question 80% of your gameplay it won’t be a problem for you. On NA there are times where 60% of the enemy team is BMPTs which no one is reliably managing such a mass even with 4 sec reload because JP armour can’t even defend itself from 82mm APDS reliably (or generally at all).

Also the fact that the few BMPTs that were in your match were many of the LMUR slingers after their first death, not necessarily a fault of the BMPT because heli is already mad cheap as it is, but BMPT armour model unreliability just lets it rake in SP better than any other vehicle, even putting their ability to straight up sent APFSDS to the void, the fuel tanks eat up darts just as bad, it’s a compounding issue.

[Zulizia]

@oXEnkryptedXo

Of the videos I did view your interaction with BMPTs is extremely limited, that’s the unrealistic aspect of “These vehicles aren’t an issue for me” the claim is shaped by you have almost non-existent interactions with the specific vehicle

So, they aren’t an issue for me? Thats literally what I’m talking about.

@oXEnkryptedXo

your interaction with BMPTs is extremely limited

I killed more BMPTs than BMPTs killed me, so they aren’t an issue to me. I have fond memories in my other games (prior to this week) of just LFP one shotting. I know that other people struggle with them, I haven’t denied that once. I’m not saying that they are perfect or balanced, hell I even say “just move them up” because I can recognise they’re unbalanced. But I’m saying me personally, I don’t have an issue with them at 12.0-13.0. If you want to dive through last weeks replays again, go ahead, but I was almost never being killed by BMPTs. So, they aren’t an issue for me. I even said within the last week that I haven’t seen nearly as many, and that was true was it not? I was interacting with barely any in the games you saw. I don’t get this back and forth of you trying to prove to me that I have an issue with BMPTs or that my claim that I don’t have an issue with them in my games is somehow untrue, when you yourself are proving to me that I don’t have an issue with them?

[oXEnkryptedXo]

They aren’t an issue for me is a generalized statement, the first thought anyone is going to have is they aren’t an issue for you because you deal with them perfectly in whatever situation, not that you aren’t coming across as many as the reason. The specifics matter greatly. Also your specific reply was they aren’t an issue, not they aren’t an issue for me…

@Zulizia

They are not an issue at those BRs.

[Zulizia]

@oXEnkryptedXo

Also your specific reply was they aren’t an issue, not they aren’t an issue for me…

@Zulizia

They are not an issue at those BRs.

This was my reply before that, where I state they aren’t an issue for me. So you jumped into a conversation I was having w/ someone else- which is fine, its a forum afterall- but then you misunderstood the context and my entire point- which isn’t fine and is stupid. If anyone read that first comment, they’d assume I was talking about my personal experience. Could I have been more specific? Sure. Did I need to be more specific for that conversation? No.

[oXEnkryptedXo]

Once again, majorily to you not having many BMPTs in your game or having very few interactions with them, give me some specific replays to watch and I’ll gladly see how they’re not an issue for you, I can do the same in return where they come blitzing around the corner and instagib me or snipe me from 600m in a BM Oplot.

[mrshufflin]

Your subjective experience has nothing to represent or bring into the discussion as this game is an MMO and should be critised based on statistics (BMPT having almost 68% wr kek). Your heavily biased experiences might deny all of the problems this vehicle brings to this game not only at its BR but every BR.

Statistically and mechanically this vehicle is an absurd, modelled in the way to eat up most of the spall and theres literally no difference if it is going to be 12.7 or 10.3. Its effectiveness is not about being able to kill, it is about taking your time, more shots = less push potential, tiemframe for others to kill you. Disabling your gun is twentish or more repair outtime, same effect, takes a little of that APDS stalinium to do so. The counterplay is literally the same for BR 10-12.7 which applies to every T series garbage with a flavour of actually damage not going through, thanks to some poorly implemented spall liners and elements in the hull that magically eat up the spall. Also ERA does not limit pen of rounds above the DM53/L27A1 (aluminium tip).

This is a clearly gamebreaking vehicle which is very much comparable to a Chieftain in some other tank based game. The problem is, Gaijin is observing reaction and selling performance metrics, the next premium will be cracked the same way BMPT is. They switched into an approach where experience of the new vehicle is more valued than the balance of the whole game.

Funny enough this approach already killed a lot of games and the other similar developer got asskicked thanks to that.

They literally went all milk the money they can before the game turns into an endgame obscurity. Poor game design and monetization schemes.

edit: fixed some typos

[Zulizia]

@mrshufflin

Your heavily biased experiences might deny all of the problems this vehicle brings to this game not only at its BR but every BR.

But I’m not making an objective argument about it? I’m just stating my experiences at top tier. I’m saying I personally don’t face the issues other people are bringing up- I’m not denying their (the issues) existence because that’s immature and childish.

@mrshufflin

Statistically and mechanically this vehicle is an absurd, modeled in the way to eat up most of the spall and theres literally no difference if it is going to be 12.7 or 10.3. Its effectiveness is not about being able to kill, it is about taking your time, more shots = less push potential, tiemframe for others to kill you. Disabling your gun is twentish or more repair outtime, same effect, takes a little of that APDS stalinium to do so. The counterplay is literally the same for BR 10-12.7 which applies to every T series garbage with a flavour of actually damage not going through, thanks to some poorly implemented spall liners and elements in the hull that magically eat up the spall. Also ERA does not or limit pen of rounds above DM53 (aluminium tip).

And I agree that it has its issues and should’ve been modelled better, as do most controversial* vehicles to be completely honest. My original comment was a critique of the idea of just “removing it” then adding on that i personally don’t have an issue with it at higher tiers (i.e. 12.0-13.0). The idea that everytime something is broken it should just be removed is absurd and stupid. If Gaijin deleted everything thats broken, it’d a lazy and sloppy solution- which it is. Its also worth mentioning that this comment wasn’t even originally posted to this thread. It was posted to another thread (that got removed and all comments got moved here), where the poster talks about how the BMPTs should be completely removed. So in the topic of that thread- yes it (my comment, not specifically my subjective experience) was something worthy bringing to the table. The idea that we should remove everything broken is dumb.

[mrshufflin]

But I’m not making an objective argument about it? I’m just stating my experiences at top tier. I’m saying I personally don’t face the issues other people are bringing up- I’m not denying their (the issues) existence because that’s immature and childish.

That is true and I agree. I just feel like that giving this vehicle any room for doubt will be damaging to the game balance. IMO the future of balance for newly added vehicle heavily relies on how BMPT will be received (more like pushed back) by the playerbase.

And I agree that it has its issues and should’ve been modelled better, as do most controversial* vehicles to be completely honest. My original comment was a critique of the idea of just “removing it” then adding on that i personally don’t have an issue with it at higher tiers (i.e. 12.0-13.0). The idea that everytime something is broken it should just be removed is absurd and stupid. If Gaijin deleted everything thats broken, it’d a lazy and sloppy solution- which it is. Its also worth mentioning that this comment wasn’t even originally posted to this thread. It was posted to another thread (that got removed and all comments got moved here), where the poster talks about how the BMPTs should be completely removed. So in the topic of that thread- yes it was something worthy bringing to the table. The idea that we should remove everything broken is dumb.

Problem with this is, that to balance BMPT they not only need to apply changes to the vehicle itself but also to how NATO rounds perform and how ERA actually behaves which is going to nerf all T series tanks. Which we all know is not going to happen.

[oXEnkryptedXo]

@mrshufflin

Problem with this is, that to balance BMPT they not only need to apply changes to the vehicle itself but also to how NATO rounds perform and how ERA actually behaves which is going to nerf all T series tanks. Which we all know is not going to happen.

The irony being that Relikt was made to counter KE, however NATO can’t get access to their rounds meant to counter Relikt, because that would make all of RU null, even though RU punches through basically everything else, short of the STRV and I guess some leos.

[Zulizia]

@mrshufflin

Problem with this is, that to balance BMPT they not only need to apply changes to the vehicle itself but also to how NATO rounds perform and how ERA actually behaves which is going to nerf all T series tanks.

I mean, as a WT player its natural I want everything to be as realistic as can be without ruining the game aspect of, well, a game. A remodel to ERA would be sweet, along with a rework to how armour works (volumetric).

@mrshufflin

Which we all know is not going to happen.

I’d argue this type of negativity opens up more doubt in the playerbase than me saying “I personally do not experience issues with it at higher tiers” /hj

@mrshufflin

IMO the future of balance for newly added vehicle heavily relies on how BMPT will be received (more like pushed back) by the playerbase.

Also I’d argue that this type of issue will always be bound to happen. This is one of the only cases where Gaijin has actually done something regarding an overpowered vehicle (a premium nonetheless (see Turm 3, T58, Kh-38s, etc.)), which just shows that the playerbase has made progress. I haven’t seen conversation really die down so I doubt Gaijin will just stop balancing on it now after moving it up 3 whole BR steps.

[immortalpaymon]

The BMPT/BMPT-72, originally at BR 10.7 and now sitting at BR 11.3, lacks APFSDS and is stuck with only APDS. However, it carries four 9M120-1 ATGMs. Thanks to its separate ammunition storage and the tiny profile of its 2A42 autocannon, hitting its upper hull often does nothing—meanwhile, it can just delete you with its missiles.

The only consistent one-shot spot is at the very bottom of the hull, right under the Relict ERA. In testing with friends, even point-blank 90° side shots into the grenade launcher section sometimes didn’t penetrate, and occasionally grenades just vanished without cooking off. Not sure if it’s bugged armor or what, but the BMPT-90 feels better protected than the T-90M in practice.

Meanwhile, tanks like the Leopard 2A7-A4 had their armor nerfed previously but still perform well.

I really think Gaijin should fix the BMPT’s damage model—increase module hitbox sizes and ammo detonation chance. At the very least, MBTs should be able to reliably knock out its 2A42 and FCS, not have APFSDS do zero damage.

And moving its BR up or down won’t change much; right now, it wouldn’t make any real difference.

[Константинович7]

Except for the belt ammo detonation behaviour that instead of exploding the entire vehicle it only detonates the belt going up to the cannon leaving no critical damage other than temporary fire, the vehicle is fine and is expected how is performing. I’ve found myself in advantage even using HEAT-FS against Terminator, since it’s explosive and the combat module is rather fragile to chemical-warhead ammunition (e.g. HEAT, HE, ATGM-HE, etc.).

[immortalpaymon]

Yes, but here’s the thing: In most cases, the first round a tank fires is almost always APFSDS. Many players even carry only APFSDS due to the bug where carrying multiple shell types can cause ammo racks to behave oddly. And in a sudden close-range engagement, there’s simply no time to switch ammo types.

[Константинович7]

Good point, I can’t argue against, most maps exclusively works in favour of close range engagements, and due to the fact that whoever shoots first has higher chances of leaving untouched of the duel, meaning in most cases the underwhelming pressure of the autocannon will leave the target desoriented, putting the odds in favour for Terminator, however this bug about ammo rack is unknown for me, I don’t think ready-rack stowage will decide what type of ammo is in there, the only ‘bug’ I’m aware of is the safe limit for HE or HEAT in sealed stowage (blow-out panel).

[immortalpaymon]

When you store a small number of a second shell type outside the ready rack, and your ready rack detonates, your remaining ammunition becomes that small stockpile of the secondary type. However, that’s not the core issue. The critical bug is that the game sometimes changes the type of shell already loaded in the breach—for instance, arbitrarily switching an APFSDS round to HEAT

[Oni-chan-Yamete-kudasai]

Are you still debating this?

How long will they continue this pointless fight ?

is the vehicle broken? Yes, he is !

Is the vehicle able to survive the 629mm APFSDS? Yes he is !

Is the vehicle not detonating ammunition even when hit ? Yes, it’s not detonating !

The vehicle is piercing MBT’s with APDS ammunition frontally without explanation ? Yes, it is !

Can it survive the engagement of 3 MBT’s frontally ? Yes, with luck you can if you don’t shoot the BMPT’s lower plate !

The only thing that those of you who want the vehicle to be balanced can do is abandon the game :)

Abandon to the point that the loss of players is more important than the existence of a vehicle, just as there was an abandonment of BR’s 10.3/9.3/10.7/11.7

Currently the game is not prepared to receive this vehicle, because we don’t even have the real armor of the Leopard or M1A2 SEP, much less its powerful APFSDS ammunition tipped with Tugsten/Depleted Uranium.

Either they remove the vehicle or they correct the models of these 2 vehicles and allow certain ammunition storage (MAINLY 30MM SECONDARY WEAPONS) to cause the destruction of the BMPT.

Good, There is a madness in defending the vehicle for having invested in it and I understand it… But it is even greater madness to think that just because you handle the vehicle well, EVERYONE AROUND YOU also handles it in the same way.

We clearly have an unrealistic vehicle within the game as a premium package,
We have players who take advantage of this error and end up greatly hindering the work of correctly balancing this vehicle.

It’s a shame, but unfortunately it’s the community of a game that I love playing so much.

[An_Pigeon]

@Oni-chan-Yamete-kudasai

The vehicle is piercing MBT’s with APDS ammunition frontally without explanation? Yes, it is!

This is what gets me man, I’ve played this game for 5 / 6 years, and never have I seen something be as obscenely broken as the BMPT.
It’s literally shredding top tier MBTS frontally.
Soaking lethal amounts of punishment, which it couldn’t even dream of IRL.

As well as this, 10.7 is still absolutely destroyed by the BMPT.
I’ve yet to win a match as 10.7 Britain against russia, even if they lose the caps and map control, they still win cause the BMPTs either out farm evryone and nuke