BMPT/72 BR Topic (Part 2)

[Necrons31467]

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

Mediocre doesn’t mean bad, it is still fast enough.

‘‘Fast enough’’

That’s about as vague as you could get.

The BMP-2M is 10.3, that comfortably puts it in Leopard 2K, Leopard 2A4, M1 Abrams, Strv 121 and Vickers Mk.7 territory, all of which are more mobile.

If you’ve got zero armour, no survivability and a main gun that struggles to penetrate vehicles frontally, you better hope you have a significant advantage in mobility so that you can reliably flank your opponents, instead it’s less mobile than many of it’s main rivals.

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

Well duh, it’s an IFV

Pointing out that it’s an IFV doesn’t magically solve the issue of it having no survivability, the BMP-2M doesn’t exist in some bubble where it only faces other IFV’s.

Other IFV’s are what it faces the least. This BR bracket is dominated by MBT’s.

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

You are not meant to fight head on in this thing, frankly the mobility allows you to flank.

Yeah… about that…

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

and ATGMs that can be used on the move

Everything at this BR can fire on the move, that’s not somehow a plus for the BMP-2M.

In fact, the BMP-2M can fire on the move before the opponent does, and still die to their return (APFSDS) shot before the ATGM reaches them, which causes the ATGM to miss instantly.

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

And the moment they will let it slip in the flank it can easily kill

In other words: As long as your opponents allow you to kill them, the BMP-2M can kill stuff.

That argument can be applied to literally any vehicle in the entire game.

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

From all that wall of text it is clear that you just don’t udnerstand what light tanks/IFVs are, how to use them and subsequently how to evaluate them. Keep using them in head on like an MBT and complain it is weak.

[Necrons31467]

In short: You have no counterarguments to anything I said, so you’re giving me the long version of ‘‘Nuh uh’’.

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

Keep using them in head on like an MBT and complain it is weak.

If you’re driving an M1, Leo 2A4, Vickers Mk.7, Leo 2K, etc. etc. and you get flanked by a BMP-2M, that’s a Skill Issue™.

These MBT’s have the mobility to flank BMP-2M’s, not the other way around, you can keep dodging this point all day long, but it doesn’t change the fact that the more mobile vehicles dictate the engagements.

[oKay_Erika]

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

Well, stop using it in frontal engagements ¯_(ツ)_/¯
It’s an IFV not MBT

Most of NATO MBTs move faster than you and they are not big chunky green box. They both stronger head on and at flanks as they come to positions first. You meet Abrams or Leopard 2A4/2K at flank - you die as they just one tap you

Heck, Leopard 2K even don’t need his main gun to kill you, 20mm will do just fine

[YEARoftheABRAMS]

This is exactly what I wanted to say. BMP-2M is a lightly armored IFV in a world of fast as fck MBTs.

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

@Necrons31467

In short: You have no counterarguments to anything I said, so you’re giving me the long version of ‘‘Nuh uh’’.

There can’t be counterargumets to wrong argument to begin with. You are evaluating IVF as an MBT. It’s inheritly wrong.

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

So anything that is not NATO MBT is bad and unplayable, noted.

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

@Necrons31467

These MBT’s have the mobility to flank BMP-2M’s, not the other way around, you can keep dodging this point all day long, but it doesn’t change the fact that the more mobile vehicles dictate the engagements.

You are blowing off difference in 5km/h max speed out of proportion.

[oKay_Erika]

That’s why HSTV-L is the only one light tank that can to compete for the right to be picked as first spawn instead Abrams.

Small silhouette
Best mobility at toptier if I remember correctly
Up to -16 vertical guidance
Truly unmanned turret

Basically everything that bmp-2 doesn’t have just as most of light tanks/IFVs at top tier so I find them pointless

[Necrons31467]

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

You are evaluating IVF as an MBT. It’s inheritly wrong.

I already debunked that argument when I said:

@Necrons31467

Pointing out that it’s an IFV doesn’t magically solve the issue of it having no survivability, the BMP-2M doesn’t exist in some bubble where it only faces other IFV’s.

Other IFV’s are what it faces the least. This BR bracket is dominated by MBT’s.

Your argument is one that often pops up in these types of discussions, and it’s as silly now as it is always.

Your argument boils down to: ‘‘The BMP-2M is great, as long as you don’t compare it to any of the countless vehicles (MBT’s) that are better than it, which it faces on a consistent basis’’.

By that same logic I’m the world’s best MMA fighter, as long as you don’t compare me to anyone that’s better at it than I am.

War Thunder doesn’t have a gamemode that only allows IFV’s to be used, stop pretending that it does.
The BMP-2M’s most common opponents are the Leopard 2A4, M1 Abrams and their derivatives in other tech trees.

Every vehicle at 10.3 and around it fight together in shared matchmaking, that’s why they should be compared against one another as such.

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

You are blowing off difference in 5km/h max speed out of proportion.

Conveniently ignoring the differences in acceleration, reverse, neutral steering and speed retention.

Also conveniently ignoring the part where I explained the more mobile vehicle dictates the engagement, and now you’ve apparently conceded that point and moved on to minimizing the disadvantages of the BMP-2M.

Stop reaching for straws.

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

@Necrons31467

Conveniently ignoring the differences in acceleration, reverse, neutral steering and speed retention.

In all those aspects the difference is there but it’s not critical which you trying to make it look like.

@Necrons31467

Your argument is one that often pops up in these types of discussions, and it’s as silly now as it is always.

Your argument boils down to: ‘‘The BMP-2M is great, as long as you don’t compare it to any of the countless vehicles (MBT’s) that are better than it, which it faces on a consistent basis’’.

By that same logic I’m the world’s best MMA fighter, as long as you don’t compare me to anyone that’s better at it than I am.

War Thunder doesn’t have a gamemode that only allows IFV’s to be used, stop pretending that it does.
The BMP-2M’s most common opponents are the Leopard 2A4, M1 Abrams and their derivatives in other tech trees.

Every vehicle at 10.3 and around it fight together in shared matchmaking, that’s why they should be compared against one another as such.

Norm_Von_Dolbit:

Yes, it’s not in a bubble, and it’s not better than MBT, still it is a good vehicle, because it has good enough mobility, good firepower which provides possibilities that MBTs and most other IFVs don’t have, and good utility. So far your point boils down to “it’s not among the best = it’s not good” which is wild and skill issue point.

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

If you people don’t consider BMP-2M a good vehicle, I would love to know what do you think about CV9040s. Which are even slower, barely better survivability, and worse firepower, and still considered to be good vehicles.

[Necrons31467]

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

So far your point boils down to “it’s not among the best = it’s not good”

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

which is wild and skill issue point.

This makes it clear as day you’ve run out of arguments.

Skill doesn’t magically make the BMP-2M more mobile than it’s most common opponents.

I could easily uno reverse card this and claim you’re suffering from a major skill issue by believing M1’s, Leo 2A4’s, Vickers Mk.7’s, Leo 2K’s, etc. don’t reliably out-position BMP-2M’s.

[oKay_Erika]

Average flanking BMP-2M play

[_Deuterium]

“Ramka-99” is the name of the program under which the BMPT was developed. Something like that.

[_Deuterium]

The BMPT shown in the photo is a prototype of the BMPT Terminator, designated as ‘Dubl-1’

More photos

[TheDidact99]

correct sir :)

@_Deuterium

The BMPT shown in the photo is a prototype of the BMPT Terminator, designated as ‘Dubl-1’

also correct! dunno where those guys took their words but the program for the BMPT was more of a “tree” of ideas rather then a singular vehicle, atleast at the beginning

[TIGER_TANK_1]

Hello, I was redirected here.

I think the BMPT-72 needs to return to lower BR. As I do not own the tech-tree vehicle BMPT non -72 variant (5 crews + HE-VT vs 3 crews) I cannot make opinions on it.

1. It’s too slow

The BMPT-72 has mobility roughly similar to the T-90A, running on a 1000HP T-90A engine, meaning it is slow.

2. The reverse speed is bad

The BMPT-72 still retains the 4kpm reverse speed, which makes escaping sticky scenarios difficult.

3. The survivality is bad

Out of few rounds, I have been one shot by M829A3 (it is an ongoing controversy why premium tank buyers are fighting 12.7 players) and other shells. The survivality is on par with other Russian tanks, like T-80BVM and even T-90A, because the crews sit on a circle shaped turret to the hull.

The tall profile also allows it to be easily blown up with large caliber HE/CAS.

Like most Russian tanks, it has hyper vulnerable ammo racks.

4. The gun depression and tall statue

The tank is very tall, with guns mounted high up, at the same time, having gun depression of only 5 deg depression, which means it struggles to fight on hills.

5. No APFSDS

The BMPT-72 lacks modern APFSDS like the 2S38 and relies on worse APDS, in a BR where most IFVs of other countries have full blown APFSDS with 100mm + point blank penetration. Also it lacks APHE/SAP like 2S38 (and begleitpanzer 57).

6. No HE-VT

No HE-VT = 0 performance against air vehicles, maybe other than biplanes or Tier V helicopters, I guess?

7. No drone (not light tank)

As you know, the BMPT-72 is not a light tank, so it does not have a drone, making it severely disadvantaged compared to lower BR 2S38.

8. Only 4 missiles with no reloading

The only competitive weaponry on this tank, exists in the form of the 9M120, has only 4 missiles and no reloading, which means after you run out of them, you are forced to rely on the 30mm 2A42s. Also, the missiles are not that exceptional compared to tank shells because it cannot penetrate tank turrets.

Finally, I am not saying the BMPT-72 is the worst tank, because it certainly is not, I think it is slightly better than the 2S38, but it does not deserve 11.7 BR.

[AlvisWisla]

Yo! A well formed Devil’s Advocate argument using logic & reasoning.
Been a while, Tiger Tank, hope you’re doing well.

The answer is no, it’s fine at 11.7, but very well made argument.
It’s an M4A3E2 Jumbo of its kind. Where M4s are 2.3 BR below, BMP3 is 2.3 BR below BMPT.

[TIGER_TANK_1]

Hey folks!!

With the recent discounted sales, I bought some airplanes and tanks, so hope that you had too! The summer is too hot outside, so there’s gonna be lots of gaming, so I hope you bought lots of cool vehicles to play with

I think the BMPT-72 needs to return to lower BR. As I do not own the tech-tree vehicle BMPT non -72 variant (5 crews + HE-VT vs 3 crews) I cannot make opinions on it.

1. It’s too slow

The BMPT-72 has mobility roughly similar to the T-90A, running on a 1000HP T-90A engine, meaning it is slow.

2. The reverse speed is bad

The BMPT-72 still retains the 4kpm reverse speed, which makes escaping sticky scenarios difficult.

3. The survivality is bad

Out of few rounds, I have been one shot by M829A3 (it is an ongoing controversy why premium tank buyers are fighting 12.7 players) and other shells. The survivality is on par with other Russian tanks, like T-80BVM and even T-90A, because the crews sit on a circle shaped turret to the hull.

The tall profile also allows it to be easily blown up with large caliber HE/CAS.

Like most Russian tanks, it has hyper vulnerable ammo racks.

4. The gun depression and tall statue

The tank is very tall, with guns mounted high up, at the same time, having gun depression of only 5 deg depression, which means it struggles to fight on hills.

5. No APFSDS

The BMPT-72 lacks modern APFSDS like the 2S38 and relies on worse APDS, in a BR where most IFVs of other countries have full blown APFSDS with 100mm + point blank penetration. Also it lacks APHE/SAP like 2S38 (and begleitpanzer 57).

6. No HE-VT

No HE-VT = 0 performance against air vehicles, maybe other than biplanes or Tier V helicopters, I guess?

7. No drone (not light tank)

As you know, the BMPT-72 is not a light tank, so it does not have a drone, making it severely disadvantaged compared to lower BR 2S38.

8. Only 4 missiles with no reloading

The only competitive weaponry on this tank, exists in the form of the 9M120, has only 4 missiles and no reloading, which means after you run out of them, you are forced to rely on the 30mm 2A42s. Also, the missiles are not that exceptional compared to tank shells because it cannot penetrate tank turrets.

Finally, I am not saying the BMPT-72 is the worst tank, because it certainly is not, I think it is slightly better than the 2S38, but it does not deserve 11.7 BR.