I love how someone who plays virtually exclusive Japanese planes and only played roughly 15 games in the Fw190 is arguing that the planes are totally fine in WT and can “outplay” zeroes.
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Bro, I don’t know shit about Physics, but the reply to your question is literary “e=mc2” LOL
Imagine picking up and throwing a cotton ball. Then imagine throwing a baseball.
Cotton ball is much lighter so INITIIALLY it will be going faster (for 0.0001sec) but than instantly it will be slowed down due to air torsion because it has very little mass of its own so there isn’t any inertia to keep it going
While A baseball is heavier but will travel much further
See?
Regarding mixed rounds in a belt, all your rounds will have the same flight model as the first round in the belt
No they won’t.
That’s the thing
Gajioob in their infinite wisdom made the shells share the muzzle velocity, and only that.
Ok, now, wait a fkn minute. Are you telling me I had a completely wrong idea about how this bug works? That it copy pastes muzzle velocity ONLY, , but otherwise each type of round is affected correctly by round-specific values for drag, mass, etc and they go all over the place?
Oh my god, if it’s true I’m gonna lose my mind. And im sure it is because some in game moments make more sense this way. Omg
The most ironic part is that I still won like 9/10 recent games, apparently mostly by hitting them with tracer rounds hahha. I ll just switch to the tracer belt altogether, haha
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Why are you attacking me?
I never said the fw-190 proforms well, I was stating that the zero has a weakness in those situations that being the controls locking up.
I do think that the fw-190 underproforms, the bf-109e on the other hand I like better than the first f4u. The middle tiers of bf-109 are mid.
Wow the FW overheats now extrem - lol more nerfs for the most overtiered useless shit planes in warthunder. By this point they better just remove them from the game.
Just the A & F models overheat like hell. I flew a few matches in the D-12, engine worked fine: Report.
I tried (in another thread) to explain why this engine nerf makes zero sense for A-8 & F-8 models as gaijin implemented the 801 TU engine which was rated with 10 minutes full WEP power at 1.65 ata - their nerf is not justified as the 3 minute WEP period (to be followed by a cooling off period) is just valid for 801 D (or earlier) engines:
This looks like a sheer incompetence of their tech mods. I pinged their boss (smin) without any reaction…
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Maybe you should have contacted Sminem instead.
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The biggest irony of all, is now that I’ve understood how this bug works, ive started landing HEI rounds much more often - and I could immediately tell just how dogshit they are
It’s embarrassing.
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The main problem is that if this is historically accurate and the 801 is a time bomb, well the 190’s A (except A-1) should drop in BR.
Even at full WEP, there is nothing a 190-A4, A5, A5/U2, ect can do against a yak3. And yet, you have to chose between WEP when climbing but no power when fighting or WEP when fighting but start the fight below fighter than are much better in fight that you, forcing you to use WEP to get away without being able to influence the early game.
Add to that the sucky 151 and shitty FM of A5, and you are outclassed against 90% of fighter. Simply because you have a time limit of how long you can run. You might be able to outrun someone but only for 2 minutes before your engine dies.
So either
- gaijin give the Antons a generous safety factor for WEP, say ~7 minutes full WEP with 2 minutes of cooling interval. And the Antons keeps their BR
- gaijin update/fix the FM of antons letting them compete better against the competion.
- gaijin lower the Antons by 0.3 each.
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The key word here is imho:
From a holistic pov nothing in Air AB or RB is historically accurate; even Air SB just shows gaijin’s interpretation of what they assess as historically accurate.
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As long as i have to face players using a mouse in Air RB (which is basically an autopilot) which allows totally unrealistic (as way to large) combat ranges as their planes and subsequently aim is artificially stabilized the question should be why gaijin tries to offer a kind of semi-realism (which allows btw neck-breaking g-forces) regarding engine management or ballistics.
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And why they felt the need to buff the weakest 20 mm cannon (irl) in WW 2 and to nerf the most effective (regarding total kills) cannon.
So whilst i fully support your analysis of the current fighting & combat capabilities of 190s your proposal is rather counterproductive as you try to flatten the imbalance with fiddling with symptoms but not addressing the root cause of the current state of 190 As.
From my pov the “historically accurate” card is a bluff, a rather pathetic illusion. Gaijin decides to play this card if it fits to their strategy and the degree of accuracy they offer is extremely selective. I wrote here why i think that gaijin simply refuses to accept my money due to their habit of nerfing hardware either based on ideological prejudices or sheer ignorance.
My idea:
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This engine nerf of BMW 801 engines is trying to implement SB components in to Air RB (which is basically just Air AB+) in the worst possible (but obviously cheapest) manner without giving their players the tools to deal with this nerf.
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So instead of artificially killing the engine like now a timer for enabled WEP and then a timer for the recommended cooling off time in the HUD would be way smarter; it would give the player a choice if he wants to kill his engine or not.
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Currently he simply has no option, all he can do is to delay the overheating (even for non affected A-8s and F-8s) by not using WEP. This can’t be right.
And in this context i would be interested how historically accurate the damage output of 20 mm ShVak in wt is when almost everybody is aware of such quotes (from 2023):
It is basically a beauty contest / anticipation or execution of addressed wishes and not “historical accuracy” what determines how certain things work in wt. The FM and thermodynamics of BMW 801 engines in 190 A/F models are based on wishes…
Have a good one!
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Meh, I can see how players want to kill a fighter by landing just 1-2 20mm rounds but that now a freaking bomber dies to a single 23mm or outright explodes from having their internal bombs hit by freaking 7.7mm rounds is a complete joke.
Also „if players wanted this“ why does this only effect explosive rounds?
AP are outperformed and let’s not talk about how cannon incendiary rounds are a complete joke.
Gaijin simple buffed HE massively and then was like:
My job here is done.
Why is SAPI or IT so bad that you still need dozens of hits to kill while HEI does it in one or two?
In the last ten years Gaijin only ever changed HE rounds and thats it.
They also decided to nerf 30mm Incendiary rounds because apparently they don’t like when a default belt contains rounds that can actually kill planes. Can’t have that right?
So AP, API and Incendiary basically have to be worse than HE so that you can now spent time or money on unlocking a belt that actually increases your killing power.
Thats probably the reason for why Gaijin only ever changes HE.
Why didn’t I think about it before? It should have been obvious.
Any report on realShatter or Incendiary shells was ignored, but now it makes sense.
Same with how they refused to have MK 103 APHEI be APHEI instead of SAPHEI.
ShVAK default belt is literally how the cannon was loaded in RL but in WT you load 100% HE because obviously HE rounds are the most lethal and in RL air forces around the world were just stupid loading guns with anything else.
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Thing is, me, personally - I don’t mind the current dmg of mineshells
I’d rather they fix the overperforming shvaks and some others
And if not, then
I’m still mostly frustrated about only getting 785ms shells in the stealth belt, coupled with their horrible ballistics.
If at least I could get 785ms shells with a tracer mixed in, to make them at least a little easier to use
Or make the tracer belt be all FI-T rounds, instead of 50/50 with I-T , something anything
Stealth requires getting used to. But you’ll get there, don’t worry.
Anyway, damage is sometimes OK, sometimes not. Which is super frustrating coupled with how fuses work vs Soviets, it gets painful.
Gaijin is not going to fiz Soviet aircraft not fusing shells. They have shut down the bug report as a duplicate of some other inrelated bug report. So here we are.
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Even with Mineshells underperforming compared to realShatter shells, they are still more deadly against planes than the APHE and API you get with the stealth belt.
If you don’t hit internal components they will just pass through the enemy with minimal damage.
Which actually should be the case even for regular explosive rounds that for the most part rely on fragmentation and incendiary effect.
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One thing I absolutely adore German cannons for is fighting US open tops at 6.0
Nothing more fun than slamming a few 30mm into M18s or M36’s turret, they often get 1-shot
And 20mm APHE works pretty well vs artillery vehicles and PT76/BMP1 if the angle is right.
I liked to use the MG 151/20 ground belt as Anti AA in Ground battles.
Shreds light armor and open tops really nicely.
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It’s good, but I see AP-I penetrating a lot when APHE fails, and I also oftentimes hit M-geschoss on open tops while missing with MK108. Or I don’t even have MK108 :P
This conversation reminded me to load AP on MG131 on Fw 190 D9, god damn, I’ve been missing out on firepower quite a lot, as HEIT belt is pretty much useless against vehicles, and planes I can smoke well enough, also vs Soviet planes AP is at least consistent.
I had some success with the Ju-87 D-5 using stealth belts as ground attacker after dropping bombs.
You get a good combination of Mineshells, that are somhow the most lethal explosive rounds against exposed crews, and AP rounds that can penetrate light armor.
Mineshells can even kill crews behind armor, due to Gaijins pressure damage mechanic.
While with the IAR-81C it was easy killing all those low tier SPAA with the 20mm APHE rounds.
The next MG 151/20s are at 3.7 on heavy fighter while you don’t get them on single engine fighters till 4.0.
I guess there is the Hs-129 as well, for which I probably also would go for ground targets to kill SPAA, while using the MK 103 against tanks.
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BTW, I would really appreciate it if Gaijin gave us MG151/20 anti-armor belt that actually works, like f.e. a mix of API and APHE 50/50 + 1 tracer.
I knownit’s not going to happen, but one may dream.
Also BTW, do you know that out of all MG151 15mm shells, only AP-I produces spall on penetration, which makes air belt the best belt vs ground, because at least 1.shell actually does something, while crews are happy to tank 15mm full caliber AP-T with their faces and only die after getting hit like 3 times, and the 15mm APCR does abolutely no damage whatsoever and to kill an engine, you have to dump like half of Germany’s tungsten reserves into it when using this specific shell…
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