Begleitpanzer 57 to 10.3 like the 2s38

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
95

So where to begin:

  1. sure .3 against .5, 3 rounds/sec against 2, now lets compare the rounds;
  2. APCBC solid shot with less pen (137) then the similar rounds on the 2S38 with HE filler (151);
  3. the SAP round (47) which used to be an APHE (90-ish) can no longer pen the sides at range;
  4. HE-VT is better but without IRST, you need to “guess” your lead angle;
  5. i-TOW isn’t really an option, with the erratic behaviour and lacks tandem, also full stop to fire;
  6. both vehicles have 148 rounds, on 2S38 all are 1st stage.
  7. bagle is faster in reverse, 2S38 has better hp/t if only slighty;
  8. 1st gen thermal not something to write home about;
  9. Bagel doesn’t have smoke, really nice to have as a light
8 Likes
96

Oh, so we should increase the firerate of the PUMA, M3A3 Bradley, KF41 (etc) and keep them at the same BR? Because apparently faster firerate does not matter.

97

That’s not how firerate of autocannons are changed.
However, their BR wouldn’t change. See Warrior vs M3 Bradley vs ZT3A2, BMD-4 vs Type 89, BMP-2M vs PUMA VJTF and KF-41, Wiesel 1A4 vs ZSU-57-2 vs BTR-80 vs Type 87 RCV-P vs Fox vs Ratel 20.

The BR differences, if any, are around other aspects of those vehicles. Size, speed, ATGMs, etc.

98

And firerate. I can’t see why you don’t think firerate doesn’t matter.
If the FOX could fire its round every 0.2s instead of 0.8s, I think it would be objectively better.

99

For auto-cannons, fire rate ABOVE that of the target you’re facing matters, and that’s really it.
These vehicles vs each other… one could talk about that.
However, when facing MBTs all fire faster than both their reaction time and reload time.

100

The Begleit at 9.3 is fine and exactly where it should be , a bit silly asking to move it above 9.3 when the vehicle does not have the capability or armament to justify it.

What the hell are you expecting this thing to do with a full bore AP-T round that bounces as soon as it hits a slight angle , has a low velocity and accuracy and only access to I-Tows which are practically already useless at 9.3 let alone the terribly implemented missile physics.
Moving it any further then 9.3 would be unjustified , the 2S38 is in another ballpark of performance/capability and I don’t think its fair to compare the two at all.

The thing struggles versus 10.3 vehicles let alone anything above that, having to face modern MBTS that are practically immune to the Bagel unless you got the jump on them via a flank is terrible.
Unless someone finds the data sheet before me on the rumored Mark.1 L/70 57mm apfsds round that was supposedly made and the spec sheet for the Zeiss Optical probe and its sensors this vehicle has no businesses being at a higher BR then 9.3.

3 Likes
101

Man i play the Begleit at 11.7 and is a top tank,is an under br IFV,needs to be moved up like 10.7

1 Like
102

I play the M22 at 8.7, clearly it should be 6.3. /s

1 Like
103

My comment it’s abbout that the Begleit can perfom good at 11.7 so i should be at 10.7 at most

1 Like
104

Nope

4 Likes
105

Think there should be more of a conversation of putting the 2S38 at the HSTV-L’s BR and putting the HSTV-L at the current 2S38 BR.

The bagel is fine, if not shafted like every other TOW vehicle because of how hard TOWs got nerfed.

1 Like
106

How about no, I’d rather not face an HSTV-L in my XM-1. It is much, much faster, while also being smaller, and that means so much in WT.

Just keep the bagel, HSTV-L where they are at, and move the 2S38 to 10.7 or 11.0.

5 Likes
107

It has crewless turret, very powerful autocannon, bette reserve speed, alot shorter, ATGMs, and who tf cares about dozer blades?

IRST and gen 2s are nice, but aren’t game changers. Blegeit at 9.3 is disgusting

1 Like
108

HSTVL really is a 1.5 second firing XM-1 that’s way faster smaller and a better turret/gun movement.

109

So what is that extra 30mm of penetration going to make the HSTV-L penetrate that the 2S38 cant already in regards to the XM-1, you can already go through everything but the cheeks of the XM-1 and the HSTV-L’s round cant do that either. Does that bit of mobility validate said vehicle being 11.7, the same can be said of the OTOMATIC at 11.3, it too should go down in BR.

That and you are omitting the superior optics, rate of fire, and the 2S38 having 5 times as much ammo.

Frankly I’d rather all the TOW slingers to go down in BR as long as they remain in their abysmal state. If gaijin chooses to give TOWs their actual historical flight performance then I see no issue for them remaining where they are.

2 Likes
110

It’s not crewless :)

APCBC with less than 150mm of pen (also higher recoil than APFSDS)

Yet it has no smoke grenades

Not by much and it doesn’t matter

Yeah, I-TOWs

One who can utilize a fully unmanned turret in a hull down position anywher on the map while also using it to get more depression

2 Likes
111

The HSTV-L is one of the fastest tanks in the entire game, and mobility is key in WT. the 2S38 is fairly easy to kill too. Neither should be moved down, but the 2S38 should be moved up slightly.

All ATGMs suck to use, it isn’t just the TOWs.

4 Likes
112

It’s ~55mm of added penetration, not 30mm. The same difference as Strf 9040C is to 2S38. So are you saying Strf 9040C is almost as good as HSTVL as well or are you going to create double standards?
HSTVL has 310mm of penetration 60 degrees, and 269 flat. [At range, HSTVL has more pen than 2S38 has point blank.]
XM-1 has 336mm of penetration 60 degrees, and 291mm flat.
2S38 is 256mm of pen at 60 deg, 221 flat.
Strf 9040C is 194mm at 60 deg, and 168mm flat.

HSTVL has a 1.5 second reload, which is more than fast enough to deal with all MBTs, any faster is diminishing returns for dealing with ground vehicles.
Ammo count is the same. Ground vehicles don’t require that much ammo to deal with.

Obviously HSTVL’s gun is only a 0.3 BR difference at best… the other 0.7+ BR difference is the mobility.
HSTVL is THE fastest tank in the game people can get [VT1-2 is the only faster accelerating vehicle, but has a far lower top speed].
How can the fastest tank in the game ever be comparable to the mobility of Begleitpanzer and 2S38?

113

You should clarify how you got those numbers, I can already see it leading to confusion due to ti being wildly different from the statcards.

The real comparison isn’t ammo count, but ready rack ammo amount.

114

A lot of people would vehemently disagree with you on both cases the latter especially when it got banished to the void.

Can’t even recall the last time I’ve ever seen a OTOMATIC in game, its been years at this point, and the HSTV-L, I think I’ve run into 2 in total, 2S38 though…

Bagel on the other hand I’ve encountered them rather often, at least in the past, their numbers have substantially dwindled from my experience, mainly due to the cancer existing, that and there being far better options with the same exact hull in the BR range.

1 Like