You really will not. Gyro torps go in a straight line once fired, turn to a preset heading once activated, and will go straight in that direction until it either A hits the target, or B runs out of power and sinks. Now that I’m thinking about it the FAT would be nice since it will turn in a circle until it hits something.
Played a lot of games when the event started, both escort and sub, then another 8 sub games tonight.
First impression was as noted frequently above: auto-win for the escorts. Only sub win this morning was when all escorts spawned one side and a few subs on other side secured the win (while getting next to no points themselves). However, 6 sub wins out of 8 tonight. I suspect the U-boats do better when half the team isn’t sat at 60m trying to configure their controls (you can’t assign buttons to sub controls unless actually in game) and generally trying to work out how the hell the controls work, what they do and which functions can be ignored as they do nothing. Pretty sure the first games were only 15 mins, so even when I did avoid the escorts and reach the convoy the game ended before I could sink much. Games tonight were 20 mins, which is better.
Despite being listed as RB, this event is pretty much AB: AB speeds, AB bomber aiming reticle.
Subs seem very strong against DD broadsides and weak against DCs, which don’t need to be very close at all to be fatal.
Another factor which might be helping the sub teams as players get familiar with the event, is the best-of-both-worlds 4-5m depth setting. At 5m you’re totally invisible (although I think you could be locked by a DD if they had reason to suspect your presence), you can travel at surfaced speed, you get the external above surface view, and you can ‘shoot from the hip’ with your torpedoes at any DD bearing down on you. This ‘magical’ depth setting is exactly the kind of clownery I half expected would come with submarines.
I find there’s just enough time to evade the oncoming escorts if, after spawning in, you immediately go to 5m depth and go flat out to get out of their path. You can then cruise around the outside of the DD spawn point and come in to the convoy from the rear. It helps if some subs are unaware of this exploit, as they provide the sonar contacts the escorts are expecting and attract the escorts straight to your spawn, which submerged subs don’t have a chance of getting out from.
Overall the mechanics are interesting enough, although the set up is abysmal - subs spawning just surfaced enough to be immediately visible to the DDs and well within guns range (if only players had complained about that sort of stupidity occurring on a few naval maps then maybe it could have been avoided… or if anyone had tested it).
If they had 5km range you could just spawn in sub, spam torpedoes on convoy, J-out, spawn again etc.
I dont think subs are weak. Once you sneak on convoy, you can kill 5 cargo ships.
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the problem is we get the bubbles from the pneumatic G7a Torpedos but the lower range and speed of the Electric (Bubble free) G7e torpedo
Destroyers can see red icon of torpedo + alarm sound anyway.
that’s another thing
honestly im most bothered by the low maximum dive debth
how am I gonna evade a destroyer if I’ll die at 58m?
3 Likes
I never use the forums, but had to log on for the first time in years just to post about this event.
Having played plenty of matches on both sides now, this is the most fun I’ve had in War Thunder in years! The cat and mouse dynamic is absolutely fantastic, and destroyers have never felt better. They finally have a unique purpose that could work really well in high tier battles! Playing stealth and outwitting destroyers as a sub feels incredible too, especially when you get to see their wrecks sink past you.
Destroyers win most matches at the moment, but I believe that’s because submarines require more skill to learn as they are an entirely new playstyle. Over the course of the day I’ve already noticed more players getting better with the subs and winning more games. I’ve reached the point where I can quite consistently work my way past the destroyers, get among the cargo ships, and cause havoc.
Sub captains complaining that they just get rushed and killed every game are not using subs how they are intended. At range, engage. At close quarters, dive to 50-60m, hide, and pop up to lay mine traps. With some clever manoeuvres you can often mine the destroyers trying to depth charge you. I see so many people only dive like 10m when attacked, which won’t save you at all.
An important thing for folks to remember too. A destroyer is MEANT to beat a sub in a fight. It is not meant to be an even 1v1 so don’t expect it to be. It would be the same if they were added to regular naval. A sub beats a battleship, a destroyer beats a sub. It’s rock paper scissors
TLDR fantastic fun, please more stuff like this
2 Likes
Really enjoy the event and the fact the score is low enough to make it enjoyable!
The spawn points need to be much farther away, however. The dessies speed just puts them straight onto the sub spawns before the subs get much of a chance to do anything. I did think the depth charges needed a buff but after a while you get used to aiming them close enough (though its not easy when your smoke stack gets the in the way of the sonar ping). I think the smaller boats will get eaten by subs that part surface because they can shred them with their deck guns and then duck down before the slower boats can return fire. Get 2 or 3 subs and they will literally destroy a coastal spawn. So perhaps a delay on the dive/rise mechanic is needed.
As for the subs, they are pretty terrible. They are slow, lack visibility, don’t turn quick and the periscope is too narrow to be useful. I know the “realism” boys will comment but they seriously need a buff, even if it is just their mobility and nothing else. The best I have done is to practically surface and fire torps at a dessie coming right at me, or across my bow. The mines are absolutely useless and just bounce off the bottom of the ships, and are too slow to deploy.
Also not sure why the heinkel has been picked, its awful compared to its counterpart.
This U-boat is a brilliant addition to war thunder!!! WE NEED Submarines in the tech trees for both Russia, USA, Britain, Germany, Japan and France! The only negatives I will mention is that noise, guided torpedos and sonar do not work currently even though control setup wise. Also submarines other than not having their actual maximum depths available to them, do not have the ability to use silent running systems like crawl motors and belt systems, so even on 1/3rd ahead the Submarine is incredibly loud with no counter because of the 59/60meter depth limiter causing them to not only be seen by everyone unless completely still, but to also have no defence against depth charges unless you let everyone know your location.
Otherwise its incredibly promising. I HOWEVER DO NOT want to see these as some sort of points reward like drones. Drones have been a wasted opportunity since many wanted them in the aviation tech trees as unlockable vehicles rather than only points rewards as it limits ppermanently the types of drones we will ever see. So similarly I am sure almost all of us Submarine fans who play Naval RB do not want to see Submarines as some sort of drone like mechanic as it would detract further from the already completely balanced vehicles.
Submarine Pro’s and Con’s from this event:
Pros:
Great models
Realistic damage models
Great mechanics and underwater visuals
Great gameplay
Amazing to see the future of submarine warfare in the naval tech trees.
Slow as per real life making them balanced against other forms of ships.
Torpedos balanced as only light ships will get badly damaged by them with current naval damage models allowing them to easily fit into gameplay especially with unrepairable breaches.
Cons:
Fragile ships as they are submarines
Too slow to face ships from coastal fleets that travel far in excess of submarine top speeds underwater or above
Limited maximum depth because of event compared to statcard and real life
No sonar to see environment at depth or ones own vessel externally unless using xray view when in the deep dark depths
Easily spotted noise wise even when traveling at 1/3rd ahead so there is no way to evade any ships.
Overall 8/10
If it is fleshed out more this will be an incredible addition to the naval forces tech trees and would love to see all the unique submarines with differing playstyles come to the game in tech trees alongside other players!
(As an extra note: though the cons seem larger they are in fact more detailed so hopefully these areas can be improved upon within realisms scope for submarines in the tech tree going forward).
1 Like
I’ve been looking forward to submarines in WT for some time now, very happy w/ this event appearing and excited to see where we go w/ these vehicles from here !
This event is really fun, entertaining and only good vibes
Submarines techtrees are welcome ;)
1 Like
So far I’m liking the future here.
Subs feel pretty good, though they definitely still need a little development (sonar, mouse steering, etc)
Imo subs will be balanced if rather situational in naval, coastal fleets will actually have a purpose!
Event wise, the ships feel significantly stronger than the subs. The sonar feels good but also kinda powerful, combined with the depth charges and mortars it makes it very easy to swamp subs. The subs feel decent too but the torpedos + firing solution system feel short range and underpowered compared to the 60kph stupid agile fletchers. Even then I’ve had some success using the subs, mainly popping up and torpedoing then diving back to 50m. Sub mines feel really weak too.
My biggest problem is that torps/mines are marked way to obviously. The only way you’re scoring a torpedo kill is if they aren’t paying attention or you spend 2-3 firing a spread so they can’t dodge them all. Then that severely limits your killing potential without resupplies. Same goes for the mines but even more so, unless they drive right over you I don’t see how they can run into a sub mine that’s already in the water. Especially since they aren’t magnetic or whatever it was back then.
Got 7 convoy ships in my last battle, Fletchers were absolutely clueless lmao
I know. It’s just that it’s a bad design. Subs should spawn further away, or heck: preferably in a random location along the frontal semi-circle that moves as convoy does, rather than in the 2 contestant spawn points.
Destroyers and frigates should have an option to intentionally use active sonar (AN/SQS-4 Fletchers used had both: passive and active modes, and under ideal conditions (stationary vessel, calm ocean, sub going at speed) AN/SQS-4 in active mode could detect submarines at periscope depth from 5.5km away), the range of that sonar should be affected by all the noises ships make - propeller speed, gun fire, depth charges, etc - heck: a number of these actions should completly blind ships with sonars (e.g. depth charges blowing up (own or friendly), own main battery gun fire, etc).
Also PBYs shouldn’t get an artificial outline of a submarine (currently subs are highlighted for you, which is why 4 bombs = 4 subs killed).
and so on… paradoxically the way submarines and escorts were “balance” in real life was actually very good for games like War Thunder.
Yeah that doesnt make sense but arent there Navy aircrafts modified specifically for submarine hunting since WW2?
That seems extremely lucky. I haven’t lost a single game on the US side. It’s enough for US to have 1 competent player to obliterate entire German side with a PBY.
Skill, patience and little bit of luck. I see lot of players play submarines as torpedo boats and they just head on Fletchers at periscope depth, which is not smart. Its similar to air battles, where some people just refuse to climb. Use that Y-axis god dammit! :D
Edit: screenshots
I would get 8 kills below but He 111 kamikaze-d one of the freights :D
Yes! And we have these in game!
Sunderland Mk IIIa (British BR 1.7) had ASV Mark III that could detect surfaced submarine from 23km and a conning tower from 11km (it could not detect submarine at a periscope depth) - spotting for the drop location of bombs and/or depth charges was still done purely by eyesight.
Air-dropped radio-sonobuoys were a post-WW2 invention, though first naval-deployed rado-sonobuoys were in deed introduced in WW2, just not for the convoy escorts. So neither of them are relevant as far as this event goes.
Yes, because “playing submarines as torpedo boats and they just head on Fletchers at periscope depth” is what gives you points. Destroying convoy ship = 50 points(?), destroying Fletcher = 500 points(?).
And again - if there was 1 competent player in a PBY you’d be dead the moment you fire your first (or second) torpedo. Noone with any degree of competency in a PBY would allow you to score 6 kills against convoy, and there would be nothing you can do about it.
There was PBY flying around in both cases. They just focus on spawn area where those head oners are.