I would like to report a balance issue regarding the F-4 Phantom FGR.2 in Air RB.
At the moment, the FGR.2 is placed at BR 12.0, which puts it into matches against much more modern aircraft such as F-16s, F/A-18 Hornets, MiG-29s, and other fourth-generation fighters. This creates a severely unbalanced environment, because the FGR.2 is fundamentally a 1970s third-generation aircraft without the avionics, missiles, maneuverability, or defensive systems needed to compete at that level.
For comparison, the American Phantom II starts at BR 10.0, which reflects its technological generation and relative performance much more accurately. The British FGR.2 is essentially on the same level in terms of era, avionics, and combat capability — yet it is currently forced to fight aircraft that significantly outclass it in every relevant category.
A much more appropriate placement for the FGR.2 would be BR 11.3.
This would still allow it to face advanced opponents, but without forcing it into matchups that it simply cannot compete in, such as constant uptiers into BR 12.0–13.0 where fourth-generation jets dominate instantly with superior missiles and radar systems.
Right now, the aircraft is practically unplayable in its current matchmaking bracket.
Date of production is not a balance factor — and that is exactly the problem with the FGR.2.
For example, the MiG-23ML is a 4th-gen jet at BR 11.7 with a radar that can lock the FGR.2 at 80 meters altitude, while I cannot lock him even when I’m above him. His R-24T missile completely ignores my chaff/flares — which you mentioned. And despite being at 11.7 BR, the MiG-23MLD even has an RWR.
I have almost the same experience with most enemies at 12.0 and above. I have played almost 400 RB battles with the FGR.2, with a 52% win rate and 299 air kills. And don’t even mention the F-16A — its lowest BR is 12.3, yet the difference between these two jets is massive, even though the BR spread is only 0.3.
When you meet a 12.7 Tomcat on a flat map, you are basically a free kill.
I compared the FGR.2 with the F-4C because the base airframe is not that different. Of course, the FGR.2 is faster and has 9G missiles and Skyflash, while the F-4C only gets AIM-9E and AIM-7D. But I can guarantee that I could get similar kills with both missile types, because with any Phantom you have to outplay the enemy, or catching someone who’s not paying attention And yet this difference in slightly higher speed and missiles results in a 2.0 BR gap.
11.3 might seem too low for the FGR.2, but maybe the opposite is true — 4th-gen jets are compressed downward, and the Phantoms exist in-game mostly to be their food.
More recent does not always mean better. That is why it is not used.
Your radar should be able to. Not sure on the exact situation you were in so i cant say what happened.
They shouldnt unless you dont know what you are doing.
RWR is found at lower brs. plus it is a pretty basic one that a lot of russian jets get.
Why? the aim7 it gets is good but its radar is not great.
The aim9g is much better than the aim9e and the skyflash is leagues better than the aim7d. not to mention the flares and better radar the fgr2 gets.
The skyflash can engage enemies that try to defend. aim7d can not. the aim9g also is much better at range and keeping up with targets in maneuvers.
depends. the f4e in a downtier can just fly up the middle of the map and missile joust with little problems. f4c can kind of do the same.
again, not a slight difference. missiles are leagues better, radar is much better, and its defense is leagues better due to flares/chaff
yes. the solution is to decompress top tier. compressing it further is probably the worst thing you can do.
The Phantom FGR2 / FG1 / F4J(UK) All have SARH and PDV radar.
The earliest Phantoms have very weak SARH and no countermeasures (F-4C at 10.0) and the 11.3 F4E has no PDV radar.
All the PDV Phantoms are 12.0, so in that regard it is correctly placed.
The issue however is that:
A) 12.0-13.0 is a complete mess in terms of balance and needs to be fixed
and
B) The British Phantoms have Skyflash DF which is a direct equivalent to the Aim-7-E2 found on 11.3 Phantoms and not an Aim-7F equivalent found on all those at 12.0. This could be fixed by giving the British Phantoms Skyflash SuperTEMP (accepted report for this) but alas has yet to be done, so in terms of loadout, the British Phantoms are heavily outclassed by their direct US equivalents and nearly anything else they face in an uptier when it comes to BVR.
So, to sum up:
Decompress 12.0-13.0
Buff the loadout on the FGR2 and/or FG1 (having 2x identical airframes is just stupid, so they could have different loadouts, both Skyflash SuperTEMPs and Aim-9Ls are options for this). If only one was buffed, the other could be lowered to 11.7. Alternatively they could be buffed by differing amounts so that one stays at 12.0 and the other goes up to 12.3
First of all the Mig-23 is a third gen plane, second the R-24T is an IR missile without IRCCM, hence it can be one flared, you probably meant the R-24R, which admittedly require a bit of skill to evade, but can be done.
The skyflash is as good as the R-24R, the mig-23 could go to 12.0 too, there’s no need to have another plane at 11.7 with op radar missiles that 10.7 planes can do nothing against. The British Phantom with 4 skyflashes is good at 12.0, we don’t need more compression, it could get AIM-9L though.
(Also the Viggen with 2 skyflash and pd radar should absolutely go to 11.7 like the mig-23ml.)
You are right, missiles are kind a same but MiG-23 have much better radar so MiG can easily shot FGR.2 while faceoff when FGR.2 radar haw no clue about enemy. I havin quite diff time with this.
And also its rly 3rd gen, i missred wiki.warthunder.
Buff the loadout on the FGR2 and/or FG1 (having 2x identical airframes is just stupid, so they could have different loadouts, both Skyflash SuperTEMPs and Aim-9Ls are options for this). If only one was buffed, the other could be lowered to 11.7. Alternatively they could be buffed by differing amounts so that one stays at 12.0 and the other goes up to 12.3
I understand your frustration, I’m trying to finish spading the F-4J and I’m not having a good time either, but moving any of the 12.0 phantoms down is absolutely a non option, they would wreck 10.7 just as the Mig-23 do, but with 2 more missiles. Truth is all of the 12.0 Phantoms are mid and are pretty much forced to be support fighters with limited use due to them having a frontal pd radar only and a lackluster FM.
Are they? Ever since the MP alt nerf ive found F-4S to be absolute beasts when facing its own BR and below, and with the raising the contrail alt recently, theres really not much enemies can do.
Its only in uptiers where they are relegated to support role but thats not issue unique to F-4J/S.
phantoms are pretty good, but dont match my playstyle. i think the spey phantoms could do with going down to 11.7 but this is only by a hair thickness of reasoning.
with the risk of being on the side of alvis i think hornets and things similar should all go up. the only thing around that BR thats newer that phantoms have a decent chance of killing is the Hawk 200 series (this will include the 209 premium thats arriving soon, that thing still wont do great)
this is mostly a compression issue but the hornets are straight up incredible for their BRs and ruin it for most around the BR range, i dont play them much due to hating top tier but the CF188 is my favourite top tier region jet for how baby mode it is, and thats not even the best 12.7 hornet.
