BAe Harrier II (UK versions) - Technical data and discussion

Pretty sure that there was a relevant excerpt in the Maverick section somewhere in the GR.7 manual you have, that mentioned it explicitly IIRC.

But otherwise it’s from this document it claims that the CCD seeker is three times better than the existing TV (Electo Optical), which using known limitations of the -65A / B against tactical targets (e.g. a T-62) which is only 3~4km slant range (under absolutely optimal strike conditions). The limiting factor on the use of the EO variants was that the seeker wasn’t great, this was fixed with the change to IIR & SALH seekers, though they have their own issues.

If the CCD seekers were properly implemented it would simply bring the AGM-65 to the same ballpark to which the-65A/B they are in game currently the -65A/B have a point track range of 6 /12 km respectively achieve, somehow. while being only able to be accessed by modern airframes.

Which of course isn’t a bug, but a deliberate decision , which I’d personally hope that they revise at some point so the correct ordnance can actually be provided and help limit the impact of its proliferation outside the BR range of SAMs, and serve as a check on the very early systems adopters and lead in airframes that some nations get that otherwise don’t have sufficient performance to back them up so are often lower then they probably should be in an A2G context.

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You guess gaijin might consider change targeting pod from Thermal Imaging and Airborne Laser Designator (TIALD pod) to Sniper Advanced Targeting Pod (ATP) on Harrier GR.7 this year ?

I wouldn’t think it was considered a priority for gaijin to have it on GR.7.
The pod was in essence a counterpart to GPS/INS munitions capability, and primarily to be used with Paveway IV (which was only on GR.9 and BAE Warton’s GR.7A development airframe)
The GR.7 model we have as is, lacks the GPS antenna on the spine that was added to some aircraft as part of upgrades to use Enhanced Paveway II (prior to GR.9 and Paveway IV) so reflects an aircraft from way before Sniper was around. It has the “frog eye” inlets on the LERX though, which is typically a GR.9 feature and only on some GR.7s (IIRC it depends on the size of the LERX)

Sniper and AIM-9M are unlikely to be seen on the GR7 at this point. Given the reports have been in for sometime, they would only be added as a balance decision. All speculation of course but I’d expect GR9 to have Sniper and AIM-9M so its different enough from the GR7 to be interesting. Second we start bolting on everything to the GR7 then the GR9 becomes pointless to add.

AGM-65G2 is the exception as the AGM-65D was supposed to be a placeholder until the BPF Mavericks come.

So I hope any day gajin consider Harrier GR.9A with AIM-9M, Sniper ATP, AGM-65G-2 and brimstone I

I don’t know Harrier GR.7 could get 2nd AGM-65 Maverick Q3 ?

I don’t know when it will be fixed, but its unlikely to be an addition moreover a replacement for the existing AGM-65D, at least that is what was in my report. the 65D wasn’t carried by British Harrier II’s.

You guess dev might consider another AGM-65 replace AGM-65D on Harrier GR.7 this quarter ?

No idea on timescales.

So Harrier GR.9A with AIM-9M, Sniper ATP, AGM-65G-2 and brimstone I for sure ?

Officially I don’t know, but personally I’d guess so. Also again AGM-65G2 should also come to the GR.7 as it didn’t carry the D Maverick.

How will the G-2’s or F’s perform vs tanks? It is it going to be reserved for LAV’s and SPAA?

My understanding is it can destory any target. But has increased effectiveness against soft targets thanks to the fragmentation effect.

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Which does kinda make sense considering what the Gr7 usually encountered and was tasked with normally in the middle east. Few hardened targets like tanks.

To begin with they will be pretty bad, with only 80lb of explosive (I think it uses ?Cyclotol?), and a not great Re factor (TNTe multiplier) of somewhere between 1.3~1.6 (there used to be a list / datamine somewhere which gave the values that WT uses) its only on par with a Mk. 81 which has a 5 meter radius of damage, so for all intents and purposes a worse Kh-25MT(D)[200lb], let alone the Kh-29T[705lb] which is the contemporary system, and with the lack of a complex fragmentation model much of the actual advantage of having a design weighted towards fragmentation and kinetic penetration, instead of explosive mass will be wasted, at least in a direct comparison though there is still the AGM-84E, and other systems which should help close the performance gap in various ways.

But the advantages over the HEAT warhead should be obvious since as a GPHE warhead (its actually far closer to a straight up APHE or SAP calcification, at least based on fill ratio) design, it actually has a chance to gets its secondary damage modeling implemented, instead of it not actually being a bug that it is completely missing, but a design decision, let alone having accurate modeling.

It’s likely to be revised at some point when kinetic penetration is added to bombs. and as per a recent Q&A it is being worked on, so may be included in the revision.

Q. More physics for aircraft bombs? Such as weight to armor penetration ratio?
Yes, kinetic damage is planned for aircraft bombs.

as it has a comparatively low fill ratio at only 80/300 = ~25% and subsequently be actually useful against Ships, their intended target, and potentially some types of static AI targets if they also get their DM overhauled, fragmentation upped massively and the delay fusing allowing for a post penetration blast it will be be a good choice against specific targets vs smaller LGB’s (GPS/INS guidance is likely to only be seen at a much higher BR) as they are F&F and so free up the pilot for further tasking especially if the datalink and other post release control systems are modeled.

For the GR.7, and other airframes which are limited to only being able to carry the LAU-117/A (Single rail adapter) explicitly, against an armored tactical target there is little effective difference between the variants of AGM-65 outside which seeker they are equipt with, and its capabilities, and depending on when things are implemented / revised / planned.

The GPHE warhead should at very least be more consistent, especially in a multi / Clustered target encounter, and in dives if the fragmentation a pattern is modeled properly as the existing lofting mechanism doesn’t have a fixed angle of impact like it should of 15 / 20 degrees.

If the eventual revision to the seeker logic adds proper Correlation tracking modes(added with the -65F/G and later), so a point of aim on larger targets can be specified instead of being stuck with centroid tracking and so not be stuck hitting smokestacks, instead able to be aimed at the waterline / magazines it will become far more deadly especially against more modern ships that have an all or nothing armor schema(let alone those that only have Anti-Fragmentation) as it gains significant penetration capabilities when used in combination with the extended delay fusing option, instead of the superfast(instant) and short delay settings.

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Another shot of GR7 carrying a pair of ALARMs.

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Awesome! Are those rocket pods on their side?

On each wing it’s carrying ALARM, 1000lb bomb with a proximity unit on the nose and r*tarding tail unit, AIM-9, and 1000lb Paveway II, plus a third 1000lb on the centreline

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I thought GJN made a statement about how they wouldn’t be adding anti-radiation missiles, “because they aren’t good irl” (source: sekrit dokuments)

I hope we get ALARM some day, is definetly needed

idk Im a bit confused. I did some more testing with the AGM-65D on the Gr.7 and I achieved a tracking lock at 17km but only when the Chieftain Marksman were moving and also not reliably. Sometimes when I tried to lock them it locked the ground but then jumped to the Chieftains, idk I dont get it, its weird.

I only get reliable locks starting at 15km, when the TIALD can also lock ground targets.