Making Russian Tank Protection more realistic

[DocUSMC]

I will start this off by saying. You really cannot defend the snail. They have been caught lying and cheating the numbers in the past red handed. They are certainly still doing this today. But…

It is a known fact that russian vehicles in game do not spall at all, or do not spall properly. This is not something that effects other nations. This has been known so long, that it is clearly intentional to give them an unfair advantage. Couple this with the lack of ammo detonation for russia, and its a broken one sided advantage.

All optics do not, russian optics seem to benefit more from this bug which should have been fixed years ago.

Users have reported problems properly only to have them shut down, someone on this thread commented that. This is disingenuous to defend.

Wet ammo was not a translation error. Their are youtube videos and copy pasted statements from the dev team which show they intentionally made it so russian ammo doesn’t detonate. It wasn’t translation error, it was intentional.

Yes, hellfires are missing performance and some key featuers/models.

I know from seeing first hand testing, that all russian era is overperforming and working incorrectly. It isn’t that good. I will also add its interesting how ammunition which would defeat era is missing form the game. I know if russians had ammo specifically to defeat other nations reactive armor it certainly wouldn’t be missing.

Simulating over pressure has had 10 years to come to fruition. The fact that they haven’t bothered to get even a slightly working system in place is by design and no accident.

You are kidding right. Name one other vehicle with 20km Surface to Air missiles. I will wait.

Also yes their are plenty of russian vehicles which are OP and in the wrong spot. The PT-76 is a good example of a vehicle that doesn’t belong in the WW2 BR. The 2S38 is another great example of a vehicle that should be at least 1 BR higher if not more. If the Maus is at 7.7, then the o279 can be at 9.0. No reason for russian players to be coddled.

Strange how you defend these guys so hard.

Hell, I even provided a test video where they proved the detonation issue has russian benefit/bias in it.

[tripod2008]

@DocUSMC

And they are TV guided, so it would be much easier to get a perfect strike.

One issue is that the Seekers are wildly inconsistent, with the early variants significantly overperforming (against a tactical target [e.g. a T-62] and optimal dive / aspect angle lock-on range for the AGM-65A &-65B should be approximately 2~3km , not the 6/12km hard cutoff it is in game) let alone the fact that they can lock onto a zero contrast target (e.g. the ground, Correlation seeking was added with the AGM-65F / -65G and is for point targets on ships / industrial complexes).

This means that they are introduced and hold airframes at higher BRs than they should, and appropriate variants aren’t available due to balancing concerns.

I probably should get around to reporting the 5 second post-release control surface lock out inherent to Paveway’s.

@AlvisWisla

Due to improper reporting.

Its not the only example.

from

Early US Designed Electro Optical seekers should not be able to lock onto the...

the response was

Seekers like these can track optically contrast objects. As it is not possible to implement true contrast edge tracking in the game we allow seekers to lock on any point on the ground. So any point on the ground is considered contrast object.

The thing here is that they already have functional bounding box code that is used for offset tracking of targets as a helicopter gunner so practically everything needed to implement the changes exists.

[DocUSMC]

I actually would like to go through this, but I need to do it carefully. Check the source material. Respond carefully etc. It is mad that a game like this doesn’t employ someone with actual knowledge of this stuff. Instead they just make crap up and wait until someone calls them out on it.

For now, I sleep. I have to do this stuff for real life in the morning and make money lol.

[Zucc_Boi]

I’m not a Russian main but an Israel and Germany main. “Human bots” is a term for cheap-ass companies using actual humans to post like bots would.

Here’s a message you can give to your higher ups - if Gaijin wants to communicate, the players are ready. But do it via actual moderators and labeled staff, not covertly.
Gaijin just doesn’t know how to stop shooting itself in the foot.

[AlvisWisla]

Impersonating staff is a game rules violation.
Stop claiming ALL players in WT are staff. We aren’t. You aren’t the only player in the game. The world doesn’t revolve around you.

I’m a native American that gets paid by the federal government of the United States cause of an issue with my body.
There are ZERO staff members of Gaijin without the label, as it’s a rule violation to impersonate staff.

[tripod2008]

@DocUSMC

I actually would like to go through this, but I need to do it carefully. Check the source material. Respond carefully etc.

The Source material relating to the AGM-65 came from a separate (Harrier GR.7 manuals) soruce than those used in the report with a lot of what could be used for the later variants.

A prior overview of all of the issues with the AGM-65 I wrote can be found here.

BAe Harrier II (UK versions) - Technical data and discussion

To begin with they will be pretty bad, with only 80lb of explosive (I think it uses ?Cyclotol?), and a not great Re factor (TNTe multiplier) of somewhere between 1.3~1.6 (there used to be a list / datamine somewhere which gave the values that WT uses) its only on par with a Mk. 81 which has a 5 meter radius of damage, so for all intents and purposes a worse Kh-25MT(D)[200lb], let alone the Kh-29T[705lb] which is the contemporary system, and with the lack of a complex fragmentation model much of…

[sartt]

@DocUSMC

Link for a video of tests https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt8ov7QgxDY " - MMDCCXLVII

oh i remember this video.

[sartt]

@DocUSMC

Yes, hellfires are missing performance and some key featuers/models.

i remember when they altered (nerfed the hellfires ) to the point they had no real capability to blow up tanks https://youtu.be/LJ34KQzq16c or how the bmp-1’s atgm was better than everyone else’s.

Im still trying to figure out what i critically hit in this video https://youtu.be/SJomz-4047U

[sartt]

@AlvisWisla

There are no “Russian OP vehicles”. Not sure why you’re defending Soviets this hard. Their vehicles are not special in capabilities.

You Serious?

[D00MBrInG3r777]

We shouldn’t stop arguing here even against human bots. Just so they can see that we can see through all the stuff they are doing either on purpose or just by incompetence.

We can make another boycott, sure no problem. If this continues many people will jump on board, it’s just a matter of time. If they want that why not, let’s give to them…

How on earth can you allow your main profit space (top-tier ground battles) to be so unbalanced and unworthy of play because it’s so blatantly one-sided for years now, especially since the addition of Pantsir?

We should boycott this also. I’m just so sad that this wasn’t mentioned in the boycott cause this is one of the main causes with the economy ruining the fun for most players.

I know there can never be a proper balance because of the sheer amount of vehicles at the moment, but having this many artificial buffs, without giving at least the opposite side an equal amount of weapons it historically has is ridiculous.

As I said many times earlier, KA52 has all its ordinance, and T80BVM has all its historical ammo.

AH64D not having, M1A2 not having, Leopard 2A6 not having… etc…

It should never happen in any serious game, especially the one that charges 70 dollars for one plane or a little less than that for a vehicle.

[D00MBrInG3r777]

Everything you said is just golden for this community. Thank you for posting the stuff you know just to prove how much they are blatantly favoring one nation over the others.

It needs to get fixed so we can all enjoy the top tier that we spent so much of our time and money to get there. It’s just not fair to us as the customers.

Also, I miss enjoying my t72b3 when it was balanced and went up in space as it should when got penetrated. I felt like I was playing a real machine and not something coming straight from comic books.

[ARK_BOI]

Seriously right now top tier are just one side on advantages being have over performance armor and spall being have best radar SPAA and can out range anyone in the game being map that so suck and only give more advantages to one nation and don’t suit top tier at all

[D00MBrInG3r777]

Imagine complaining about camping in a tank game where the hull-down position benefits most of Western if not all of the Western tank.

It’s not like you can camp for a long time either, since you have planes and helicopters looking for you after 5 minutes in the game…

And then listening to the part of the community that is made of 8 to 15 year olds at most. Now Russian mbts press W and just shoot center mass and one shot without a problem.

Talk about balance. That split second is very important in the top tier, even for very experienced players and twitch shooters wanna bees. So that’s where t80bvm excels.

Try shooting t80bvm under the gun. Most of the time you will hit its hatch that has 1000mm of KE or more resistance if you are not very careful. Look it up

That’s one more thing that’s really annoying and I didn’t see that pointed out that much.

Russians have like 10,15 things that we can point out that are going on for them and that’s what makes the top tier very one-sided and very unfun.

[D00MBrInG3r777]

I wanna know what this hatch is made of. It’s the strongest material in the world. What is the name of it yet again? Stalinium?

Many times you hit that part when trying to twitch-shoot T80BVM and you do nothing absolutely.

That’s what pisses me off the most. It’s not just the spall that is unreliable but the drivers hatch

I can’t count how many times I died because of that stupid hatch!

5667mm of protection, I wanna know what that is made of really!!

So they say just shoot a driver’s hatch huh?? Laser precision is needed my friend haha

Oh by the way I tested this with DM53

[Zucc_Boi]

I remind that the most fun we had in top tier was in the April Fools event with Leopard 2A5 vs T-90. It was mechanically bad but it was still a lot of fun.
Fast forward to today and none of that fun is in top tiers. None talks because many are actual bots. Teams are half the size cause none wants to play there anymore.

How Gaijin can make the game fun without any bit of effort:
Every nation at top tier gets 1 MBT, 1 IFV, 1 SPAA, 1 helicopter.
Every player gets 5 respawns, can choose any ground vehicle at no cost or a helicopter for a set spawn points.
No such thing as modules, stock or spaded.
Gaijin lets players design unique skins and sells them.

E

[sartt]

Soviet ammo detonates IDENTICALLY to Ariete’s ammo. This is from the datamines.
You are officially posting misinformation. If it’s intentionally, it’s disinformation.

Itz kra-Z how there are hundreds of videos, thousands of reddit / forum posts about Russian tanks not detonating, or how gaijin itself was even forced to make post about the T80-BVM era stopping spall from Depleted Uranium Rounds fired at it from a 40 degree angle, and then a magical thin steel wall stopping the shell all-together…

[sartt]

only tank that can hulldown with impunity is that one russian event tank. only thing that can kill it are atgms

[DocUSMC]

Before I go through all this data, I want to address this “only 80lbs” issue. So the Javelin Missile, which has absolutely shown to just destroy russian tanks with ease, only carries 6lbs of explosive. So anything more than that in game should be a death sentence as I am sure most people by now have seen how effective it is against even the newest russian tanks in Ukraine.

[Morvran]

Ultimately, and this is a fact that cant be dismissed.

significant number of threads are about percieved over-performance of Soviet Tanks and other vehicles. I never see them for Sweden, or US, or Germany or any of the “minor” nations. They are always for Soviets. Maybe it is a biased sample, the english speaking forums. but that statistically proves. if nothing else. something IS wrong. Are soviet tanks over-performing by 5-10% or 50%. I don’t know. But it needs to be investigated, It needs to be challenged.

There is just too many examples to dismiss it entirely. Im not an expert at ground combat. I know 50% of my problems is lack of experience. But i’ve got 1000s of hours of flight time and I feel it in every fight and have done for years. Heck, even some minor, really easy things to observe. like the fact most 11.3 Premiums in ARB, kept their 11.3 position in ASB, despite the fact their TT version are much lower. Take the FGR2/FG1 10.7 in SB, F4J(UK) 11.3. But the soviet equivalent. Mig-23ML. Is 11.0 in SB. Why? Why does that jet get a lower SB rating, but the others… dont?

Just a little suspicious and unfair in my opinion.

Is everything wrong/right? I dont know. But I’d rather say. “I dont think this is right” and be proven wrong. Than say nothing at all, and be proven right

[DocUSMC]

@Morvran

Just a little suspicious and unfair in my opinion.

Is everything wrong/right? I dont know. But I’d rather say. “I dont think this is right” and be proven wrong. Than say nothing at all, and be proven right.

You know what would make things a little bit more honest. Is if they didn’t “hide the numbers” and “hide their documents”. We aren’t stupid. We know this means they either don’t exist, or they don’t line up with what they did in game. It’s pure dishonesty plain and simple. Otherwise they would simply cite their sources like they ask us to do.