That I know but comparing how we would likely get the Cheetah and how the C.10 currently is. I still love both
Of course, I’d love to see the Cheetah in the game too; in fact, I think the suggestion for the Atlas Cheetah E is already being considered.
It has but probably rejected by the Devs for the next few years as it was passed 2 years ago when it was needed most
I don’t think so; it could be an excellent event vehicle for the British TT. We shouldn’t lose faith. You know that many suggestions have been around even longer and have already been added to the game.
1 Like
Passed to devs has little-to-no influence on their plans, it’s literally the forum team passing a couple of things to the dev team to gauge community interest
1 Like
DISCLAIMER
The following material IS NOT CATEGORIZED AS CLASSIFIED, it is available for public viewing in statute of the “Ley Orgánica de Transparencia y Acceso a la Información Pública”, or “Law of Transparency and Access to Public Information” in English. These public records are taken straight from the Ecuadorian Ministry of Defense which permit the viewing and download of these documents in their official repositories.]
Greetings everyone, I’ve been researching a bit in regards to the Atlas Cheetah, and found some interesting documents which could bring forward the research of this magnificent aircraft.
As you may already know by now, Ecuador was an operator of the Atlas Cheetah, which adapted quite nicely into the Ecuadorian Air Force’s previous experience with delta canards with Israeli avionics.
I can consider seeing the munitions proposed here being integrated effectively into the Atlas Cheetah, as Gaijin isn’t adverse (for now) to adding hypothetical or derived armament capabilities to aircraft
[See for example the Kfir C.10 Block 60, which never used Python 3, only Python 4/5]
For starters, here is the official record of the contract signed with Denel Aviation:
TRANSLATION: Contract N. 2010-D-035 in Nov-22-10 with Denel Aviation South Africa | ACQUISITION OF GOODS AND SERVICE PROVIDING | Acquisition of 12 supersonic aircraft and 5 years or 5000 hours of warranty of operation for the FAE.
As we can see, the contract for the acquisition for the Atlas Cheetah was signed on November 22nd, 2010, later on put on effect November 21st 2011 according to this document below:
TRANSLATION: Since Nov-21-2011 the 2010-d-035 contract “Acquisition of 12 supersonic modernized combat aircraft with third generation technology, logistical support, training and operational warranty of 5000 hours or five years of operation, whichever may happen first, for the Ecuadorian Air Force” was put into effect.
Now that we have covered a bit of history and contract dates, let’s begin.
Armament Capabilities
As recorded, the Ecuadorian Air Force has integrated the Python 3 and Python 4 missiles, as well as guided bombs, into all of their delta-wing main fighters, these being the Kfir CE and the later acquired Atlas Cheetah.
Unfortunately, I have yet to find images of the Cheetah carrying the Python 4 or the guided Mk-82 bombs, however, we can prove these capabilities using the public records from the Ecuadorian Air Force.
Guided Mk.82 Bombs
According to the following document, the Ministry of Defense signed a contract on December 10th, 2010 for 80 guidance bomb kits to be used on the Mk.82 bombs, according to Wikipedia this would be the Lizard guidance kit, however this is reported through an unreliable source.
TRANSLATION: Contract 2010-d-043 ELBIT SYSTEMS on December 10th, 2010 | Acquisition of 80 laser guidance kits for Mk.82 bombs.
We also have this next pre-contract record to prove useful in regards to the Mk.82 bombs:
TRANSLATION: Registry CBE-MIDENA S/N - 2013 | Contractor Ruling of Strategical Goods | Acquisition of 100 Mk.82 bombs and 90 electromagnetic fuzes .
Python 3 and Python 4 Missiles
The Python 3 missile was integrated by the Ecuadorian Air Force as it is recorded in the following pre-contractual record:
TRANSLATION: CBE-MIDENA S/N - 2013 | Contractor Ruling of Strategical Goods | Python 3 missile integration into Cheetah aircraft.
In regards of the Python 4 missile, we can confirm its integration into the Atlas Cheetah thanks to the following records available.
As the first piece of evidence, we have the service life extension for the Python 3 and Python 4 missiles of the Ecuadorian Air Force, this is noted in the following pre-contractual document:
TRANSLATION: Registry CBE-MIDENA-007-2014 | Ordinary Process | Extension and Certification of service life of the Python 3 and Python 4 missiles .
We also have the official contract record sent to the Chilean company “FAMAE”:
TRANSLATION: Contract No. 2014-d-002 in Aug-01-2014 with the public Chilean company FAMAE | PROVIDED SERVICE | Extension and Certification of the Python 3 and Python 4 missiles belonging to the FAE .
TRANSLATION: Acquisition of armament for the Air Force (FAE Reserved) | In 2021, the Ecuadorian Air Force will reach 100% operative capacity due to: a) It will maintain configuration capacity with the Python III air-to-air missiles, for missions in the Atlas Cheetah “C” aircraft. b) It will maintain operational missiles in suitable conditions for operational missions. Maintain logistical support capacity for Python III and IV missile systems. d) Maintain 5th generation medium range BVR missile capacity for the new supersonic platform of the FAE.
Specifications
Lastly, in the documents we can find the full specifications of the Atlas Cheetah provided by the Ecuadorian Air Force, in this case, I will provide the most interesting sections of the specifications provided.
Unfortunately, since this is a pretty lengthy section, I will not be providing translations, though if it is REALLY REALLY DEMANDED I will translate this specification sheet for everyone.
Sources:
The sources provided have been saved in my local devices, however I encourage everyone to archive them by themselves in any case the local Ecuadorian repositories may fail.
[Ministerio de Defensa Nacional del Ecuador]
- Recuperación de la Capacidad Operativa de la Fuerza de Reacción Inmediata del Sistema de Defensa Aérea Nacional
- Procesos de Contrataciones de Bienes Estratégicos Enero 2015
- Detalle de Liquidación 30 de Septiembre de 2014
- Detalle de Procesos Pre-Contractuales 30 de mayo de 2014
- Detalle de Procesos Contractuales 30 de agosto del 2013
- Planes y Programas en Ejecución Junio 2015
9 Likes
should definitely go in the british tech tree before the south african gripen
2 Likes
It’ll likely go to Great Britain before the Gripen, as they’ve stated South Africa will be a sub-tree for it, I was hoping it would originally go to Israel, but it doesn’t seem to be that way unfortunately.
2 Likes
Just play the Kfir C.10. It’s so unfinished that it’s like a WT Cheetah C but with a better radar, 1 less missile and a different cockpit that is still broken.
I used to enjoy the Kfir C.10 a lot before I started doing research behind its avionics on my own and realize that it’s SOOOOOOOOOO lazily modeled to the point where it pisses me off every time I use it.
No joke, there’s so many things that have been lazily implemented in it, the HUD, the MFD’s, the instruments, the RWR, the missing MAW, to the point where it’s genuinely annoying.
2 Likes
That’s why I stopped doing things like that for my interests. I get so angry and I don’t need that built up anger that can be communicated to those who don’t understand our communities’ interests
I do it because if I don’t, nobody else will.
And because I get to fill my folders with new documents and cool footage.
Reference picture of my actual folder where I hold a lot of documents in regards to multiple aircraft.
Also, being bilingual opens up new paths to research information.
2 Likes
good, i mean hopefully we get all cheetah variants as they will help pad out top tier tree, although personally if they do that would like to see them move the fgr2 phantom and the Eurofighter over after the lightening and then drop the tornado f3 early down to rank 7
1 Like
Excellent info. It seems to mostly line up with what I gathered. I’m curious about the DEFAs being specified as 552s, it would be interesting to see if the FAE examined the guns and determined they were 552s or if the SAAF just told them they were 552s and the FAE didn’t question it. If they were in fact 552s instead of 553s it could be a blow to the theory that the Cheetah C is a Kfir modification and not a Mirage upgrade, however the SAAF could just as well have installed 552s which they would have spare parts for.
4 Likes
Greetings, I would certainly have to look into it, though a common thing I’ve heard from pilot, aircrew and other FAE personnel is that since the Kfir CE’s and Atlas Cheetah’s descended from the same lineage (the Mirage III family), it was common to use the decommissioned Kfir CE’s to repair and refurbish the Atlas Cheetah’s over here during the needed cases.
Now, in regards of the documentation to further prove this I don’t really have a definite answer, unlike major superpowers, the Latin American region gatekeeps their documentation a lot and has made it very hard to research aircraft, even those that are export variants.
For now, the FAE hasn’t really published the manual behind the Atlas Cheetah, despite it being out of service for around 5 years, same goes with the Kfir CE, which has been out of service since 2011. The closest thing we have in regards to both in terms of sources are the Ministry of Defence and a few articles from our local universities (which aren’t available digitally and I’d have to go there to retrieve the information).
However there are a few ways to extract information, I’ve realized that there are many Master’s projects and other academic works that have been published that mention the Atlas Cheetah, which could be a valid source in regards to pushing the research forward. However I am not entirely sure of this being the “holy grail” of information one might expect, though a few nuggets of information may come from it.
TL;DR: The Atlas Cheetah much like the IAI Kfir is a reliably difficult aircraft to research, therefore, we must dig-deeper by looking into graduate projects and Master’s degree projects as well as other technical sources to be found.
Author's Additional Notes
For those who have read this far and are willing to put in the effort, worthy universities to look at are those which are specialized in engineering and military sciences, for example the ESPE (Escuela Politécnica del Ejército), ESPOL (Escuela Superior Politécnica del Litoral), ESPOCH (Escuela Superior Politécnica de Chimborazo), UPS (Universidad Politécnica Salesiana), etc.
Ecuadorian universities offer digital repositories to archive previous and approved documents, if the university in question is located in Guayaquil city I COULD pay it a visit in the near future after my semester ends, though I am not certain on this.
2 Likes
I always figured that, while the Cheetah was derived from the Kfir, they were still different/semi parallel developments.
For the Kfir, its lineage goes: Mirage III → Mirage 5 → Mirage 50
↓ → IAI Kfir
And for the Cheetah, it’s: Mirage III → Mirage 5 → Mirage 50
↓ → Atlas Cheetah
Wouldn’t the Kfir and Cheetah be their own separate branch from their respective “sire” aircraft?
If I correctly recall, the Atlas Cheetah descends directly from the South African Mirage III, while the Kfir is more directly related to the Mirage V.
If you really want to get precise, the true descendants of the Mirage 50 are the Venezuelan Mirage 50EV/DV and the Chilean Mirage 50CN Pantera.
It’s either that or I’ve made an interpretation mistake because I’m seeing your post in the mobile version of the forum ahahaha
3 Likes
You know what? I’m kinda invested in this sorta genealogy of the Mirage III, I think I might do an “aircraft tree” of sorts once I get home.
Yeah, that’s what it was supposed to be. For some reason the spacing got all messed up when I posted.
For reference, the Kfir was supposed to be splitting off under the Mirage 5, the Cheetah was meant to be splitting off from the Mirage III
Ohhhh so it’s a formatting issue haha, no worries
1 Like