I understand very well that the Japanese faction needs CAS replenishment, and now Japan has indeed been greatly strengthened. Well, the Chinese faction also needs replenished ground vehicles, why do they have to put up with those replicas that have long been there? Old replicas from Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar or Cambodia?
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Because the L2SG is a powerful ground vehicle that China needs, but there are also people who want to get it.The main arguments for opposition are “factional specificity” and “Western equipment should not be owned by China”. But now, haha, look at how many people in Japan are happy that they finally got a CAS supplement? And how many people are shouting that “the Japanese faction needs to remain unique”?
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Arguably China is not dependant on ASEAN alone, they also have other nations outside of ASEAN to be added, such as Bangladesh, Pakistan or North Korea, maybe Iran.
Though I do understand this argument, as when looking at ASEAN alone it is reasonable.
There’s also the point that when it comes to vehicles left to add, Japan even with Thailand has less than what China has, so the need for further additions is bigger. Keep in mind japan already relies on 2 MBTs, simply added multiple times with minor visual changes.
The point here is that these are exceptions. Malaysia operates 3 eastern style vehicles, the Su-30MKM, MiG-29N a d PT-91M, while the rest of their equipment is western. I see these no different as I would a Pakistani/ROC F-16V, ROC M1A2T or Bangladesh Rafale likely added to China in the future.
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But none of these countries are strong enough to board the 12.0 class vehicles, and those tanks are not strong enough to significantly strengthen the Chinese ground like the planes that Japan acquired from Thailand. That’s why I’m so pessimistic and why a significant number of Chinese players want to get their hands on the Singapore subtree.
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None of these help, which was his main point (also cross Iran out, what?). It simply is not comparable to your ridiculous demands for Japanese tech tree. China does have it’s own, quite robust, arms industry yes. And I’d be happy with more representation of it. But those vehicles aren’t an obstacle for China to get a piece of the sub-tree trend for their own. Especially with MBT’s.
Obvious outliers versus an impossible Bangladesh Rafale, a ROCAF F-16V that is already fitting the theme and a M1A2T which is the very last MBT the tree can receive.
You’ll also have to mention the T-84, VT-4, Leopards, light tanks/IFV’s, F-15SG, F-16D+, Gripen, F-18 and Rafale operated by the nations you’re trying to claim. Hell, you even touched on the KF-21 and F-15IND in the suggestion. It is not a matter of “that is western, this is eastern”, we are not comparing that. What we are saying is the idea of Japan (or any nation, at all) receiving this much equipment is ridiculous, meanwhile another party gets denied a treatment that is much, much less in comparison for “reasons”.
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Should Thailand’s F-5 and F-16 jets get KGGB 500-lb glide bombs (or any Thai high-tier jets capable of carrying Mk.82 bombs)?
According to Thai sources, the KGGB has a glide range of up to 100 km and can be deployed without requiring aircraft modifications. It’s launched using a bomb control device that looks similar to a tablet. Thailand reportedly possesses around 20 of these kits.
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Yes, the only ASEAN tanks to achieve that would be the Leopard 2SG and Leopard 2RI.
Looking outside ASEAN as well, I think Iran is the best bet (I’d rather see them for China than USSR), mainly since I doubt the North Korean tanks being quite 12.0 worthy. Arguably we also haven’t seen the peak of Chinese tanks yet, though Gaijin is used to mismanaging those.
This I agree with, one way or the other, China needs a subtree to match other nations getting theirs. I also understand the need for an MBT, seeing how poorly the Chinese ones were implemented.
Yeah, ROC isn’t a good comparison, but I just meant to say I am not arguing for pedantic west/east separation.
I even recall an idea for a combined North/South Korea subtree for PRC/ROC.
While I don’t know how serious that was to begin with or what Korean players think (if you are Korean that’d be an interesting thing to hear), it does at least seem like a reasonable “technically combined Korea tree” in case Gaijin decides against an independent tree.
I don’t mind western tech in the Chinese tree, I simply advocate for an ASEAN Founders subtree in the Japanese tree.
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Iran seems to be too far out of reach honestly.
This actually is a running joke between me and my friends, that SK to go along with TW and NK to go along with PRC would be hilarious to see. Can’t quite comment on the technical possibility of it though.))
Neither do I mind the Oplot or the VT-4 in the Japanese tech tree (that much). I’m again saying I just find the overall amount additions too much. Not their origins, not whether they’re eastern or western. It also isn’t a concern of developers.
Spot on.
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Thailand I can still see in japan because of them in ww2(even though I am chinese and have grandparents living in thailand) but rest of them not really.
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The su30mkm is effective for China, which has few flankers with TVCs. mig29N also does a good job of filling the BR gap that China lacks. Indonesia’s su27 and su30 are well suited for China’s military weapons and premium. The F/A-18D is suitable for Japan and China has enough domestic fighters to fill the F/A-18D gap. Indonesia’s F-16C is best not implemented, and Japan will eventually implement Thailand’s F-16A(e)MLU. China has Taiwan’s 16V, MLU with AMRAAM, and Pakistan’s 16C. As for tanks, both countries want new top class MBTs. I understand that many Chinese want the Leopard 2SG. But many players forget that Indonesia has the Leopard 2RI, so a similar tank can be implemented in both Japan and China. The PT91 is indeed based on the T-72, but it is very far from the T-72 in terms of transmission and ERA changes.
North korea should be in a united korea tree, iran in middle east
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I think eastern weapons like su30mkm should go to China and western weapons like F/A-18D should go to Japan, F-16D+ and Leoparad2SG/RI are best implemented in both countries as there are two similar ones but Indonesian F-16C should not be implemented,If there are more C&Ps, there will be people who will be furious lol.
To be honest people saying this would save japan’s CAS problem are wrong.
Japan’s CAS problem extends further than top tier. I sometimes play japan(rank I) and I must say, the CAS is HORRIBLE. The bombs require a direct hit(sometimes direct hit won’t work) and each plane can carry only one, the machine guns are bad and overall the planes aren’t that great at low tier ground either.
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I agree, but Gaijin doesn’t seem to.
It might be an option for united Korea with the united Chinese tree as well, where Korea could be combined and has a good amount of space compared to SK as US subtree, while also solving China’s MBT issue. For air it’s even very similar to Singapore, with the KF-16s and F-15K.
Though I would want to hear more opinions from Korean players before considering to suggest it.
Also fair, I just name it because it seems to be considered for USSR subtree and I think if it does end up a subtree China would be better.
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Just a reminder:
Please make sure to follow all Forum rules when making comments on suggestions.
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But the Japanese aircraft were very capable of air combat, and their turnaround performance was particularly good.
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Arguably Japan does have domestic CAS to fill the earlier ranks. But of you need it to be subtree CAS, there’s Japanese aircraft operated by Thailand and Indonesia specifically. Thai Ki-30 or Indonesian Ki-51 would be very nice to see.
Otherwise domestic ASEAN aircraft like the Thai RTAF-5 or Indonesian NU-225 would be interesting as well. Alongside that maybe the AT-28D-10 for a nice lower BR CAS aircraft that could also come with a JASDF T-28 camo.
While the subtree does have a lot less Rank 1-4 aircraft options, they also are a lot less needed. Keep in mind Japan has a 5 line air tree, only 3 of them end at rank 4 (assuming R2Y2s are removed).
Yeah their dive bombers are better as fighters than CAS or base bombing
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I would urge everyone who has an opinion on the implementation of a future ASEAN tree to the appropriate topic, this one pertains only to the Aviation proposal
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I should point out that the creator of that Polish suggestion stated it was a joke
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