I’m finding it really hard to think otherwise with these things. The spam of them is insane especially with the 2A4M, PL, and 123. DM53 lolpens everything and they have by far the best survivability of any MBT in the game. Trying to be completely fair here as people seem to be ok with the Leopards being this dominant but if it was Russia it’d be a whole other story.
Curious to see what people think as I think they are definitely imbalanced but not gamebreaking.
Yes, they are
They are the perfect combo of mobility, firepower and survivability. Whilst some like the T-80s are very fast and the Abrams has the leopards beat on firepower. Not a lot else can truly match the Leopards at the moment.
But the biggest issue is the compression. Tanks like the Challenger, Ariete, Merkava, etc, should not be the same BR as the Leopard 2s
Perhaps biased as a UK main however I find the CR2s to be lacking a lot of specifications and features that they have in real life, the consensus I’ve found is it’s because Gaijin hates Britain(unironically). Regardless there’s 6 variants of the CR2(1 prem 5 TT) + CR3 TD. Four of them + CR3 TD are all 11.7. with BN/2E being 12.0. I have no idea why aircraft have 14.0 but ground doesn’t but it’s a necessity now, the compression at top tier has been seeping down into lower BR brackets for a long time now and eventually there’s going to be an overspill.
The worst part is I believe the Leo 2’s are already massively nerfed from what they should be IRL, I have never played them but it must be a draining experience for those who do. They should get to experience the tank as it is in real life without major sacrifices, yet BR compression has been cause for many nerfs/alterations to its performance in order to squeeze in with other tanks.
Oh they 100% hate Britain. Just need to look at the Stormer HVM being denied the new radar screen without any justification.
But yeah, CR2s could and should be a LOT stronger than they are now. But the devs dont care.
Yeah, you could easily decompress 11.3-12.0 to 11.3-13.0 maybe even higher, without much challenge.
Spanish_Avenger had a good proposal for what that could look like
No arguments there except for stock CR2 being higher BR than CR2 upgrades lmao
Wouldn’t 13.7 just always get downtiered to 12.7 though? I feel like they should just bite the bullet and go for 14.0 ground and maybe chuck in a few more vehicles where necessary to fill the gaps. Or comb through the current top tier lineup as is and fix all the technical inaccuracies of vehicles, then readjust BR accordingly.
They might, they might not. At the moment 11.7 gets downtiers reasonably often. So I think 12.7 wouldnt only see 13.7
The addon armour from the 2F, TES and OES do nothing but add weight. Which reduces mobility further. Might be different if adding 10 tons of extra armour actually did something, but at the moment, it doesnt do anything
122s and 2A7 maybe, anything else; not really
I personally find that my TES/2F is ever so slightly more survivable than my stock CR2 but it’s negligible. I’ll take the extra weight for the roof tea table and netting any day tho
Very underwhelming that the CR2s are so big and heavy yet seem to get lolpenned by any kinetic rounds that look at it 🤷♂️
Oh yeah, Aesthetically, the 2F looks awesome. Just a shame that is all it provides
(which is the biggest let down of the Cr2s. They just look awesome)
the Challenger 2 has been fighting a losing battle with powercreep since 2020, poor benchmark to judge what’s OP
The 2a7s and 122s are really strong and I think most people are fine with that not because its not Russia but because multiple nations have access to these strong vehicles namely Italy, Sweden, and Germany.
When the T-80BVM was dominating with a near 80% winrate, people were frustrated because 1 nation was dominating. Also the T-80BVM was really buggy back then.
a7v and 122? yep
Everyone below? idk I start to use 3bm42 from 10.3 as sovs
Even lower ones? I got my 3bm22 from 9.3 as sovs
2A6 was already the most powerful toptier MBT before the 122 and 2A7
I’m not sure the 2A4’s are OP, yes they’re good but the turret basket change was a hefty nerf.
I don’t see any problem with leo2s, everyone of them are easy to penetrate with any top tier guns (I’m not talking about autocannons). A7 and 122 have little bit more armour, but still lower plate and around Gun is still huge weak place. Plus that, leo2s are like tank destroyers, they can’t shoot behind or side targets (stupid Gaijin style NERF).
They haven’t extremely speed (tupe 90s or T80s are faster) they can be killed by shooting turret rings (like Abrams), have turret baskets so any penetrations disables (for some reason, T series or Chinese tanks haven’t this problem, loading machine and ammo in it somehow absorbes all damage and tank still can turn turret and make 1 shot).
Leo2A4 is absolutely worst leo2: gets always uptiers, has no armour and only 408mm penetration at 10.7, even in it’s BR every MBT can penetrate it almost anywhere (only turret chicks has somewhat armour, but nobody will shoot there lol)
So, as i said before, leo2 aren’t any better then Abrams or t-series tanks, every vehicle has it’s strong and weak places, everything comes to how you play it.
Having played all big three MBTs, no. But it really depends on variant.
Leo2s might have best post-penetration survivability (and even then Abrams has them beat in ammo stowage layout). But its not until you reach 2A5/A6 till you get proper turret armor and Strv122/2A7Vs until you get proper hull armor.
Out of the three you named, only 2PL has any armor worth speaking of, that being the turret (and it still suffers from the massive mantlet and gunner optic placement of base 2A4).
Base 2A4 (and by extension Pzbtl124 and 2PL) have actually quite poor hull armor, which can be UFPed by 3BM22.
24AM has only additional Mexas armor on UFP and without a beak, ie. basically useless as the same 2A4 hull armor is beneath, and the additional armor on turret is just 10mm thick as it was only ever meant to protect the tank from RPGs in Afghanistan.
They all share same internal layout where guner and commander sit.behind the driver, allowing a well placed shot to take out 3 of 4 crew members (made worse by the addition of basket), small ready rack (16 rounds which player will notice on prolonged fights) and massive mantlet.
And even before the turret basket, gaijin decided to nerf them with not being able to depress the gun over the rear arc “because gun could get damaged during the tank movement” (did abrams also get nerfed?). Still waiting for gaijin to add this feature to any other MBT!
I don’t think most of them are OP. However like others have already said, how strong they are depends on the variant.
2A4: Strong. Not overpowered but due to it’s all round performance it’s one of the best 10.7 MBTs.
2PL, 2A4M: Average. They are still very usable 11.7 MBTs, but they really aren’t anything special.
2A5, 2A6, PSO: Good - semi strong. They are solid tanks that are easy to play, but they really aren’t game changers at 12.0.
2A7s, Strv 122s: Really strong. They aren’t as overpowered as they used to be after air superiority, but there is a reason why people still rightfully consider them easily the best MBTs at 12.0.
I agree with the concept, but some of the BRs in that post are absolutely criminal lol.