I just finished an Air RB match in my B-18 B - and i saw two main factors which are making playing bombers so miserable:
Nerfs of gunner accuracy and damage output of gunners
Low skill fighter pilots dedicating their entire match to kill a bomber
What happened?
Long version:
In this match (replay link) a player spotted my contrail after 3 minutes and tried to kill me until he had to break of at 15:45 game time.
Summary
His effort out of these 12 minutes was 25 points for a hit, just a scratch.
My mission score was 350 points for 8 hits and one crit.
I saw him after around 4 minutes, checked his player card and decided to break off and turn away with a distance of 5-6 km. By looking at his stats (28k player kills vs 20k deaths in Air RB) it was obvious that he would go for me - whatever it takes.
I mean a high and very fast B-18 B is one of the most difficult targets to kill - especially if you get peppered from 2.5 km and the pilot has a level 75 crew and an aced plane - this means 10 seconds reload time.
Trying to go for a B-18 B with a Yak-3 (4.3 Air RB) is just brain dead; the Yak-3 is too slow above 6 km (=not suffient excess speed for an attack) and you have to get within 1.4 km to score a hit with the 20 mm ShVak. Otherwise the shell will de-render before they can reach a very fast (>650 kmph TAS) enemy.
Zoom climbing does not work if the B-18B dives slightly as most guys have no clue that things like wing rip speed are connected to TAS values (585 kmph IAS is more than 720 TAS above 6 km) - the Yak-3 scratched his rip speed in such an attempt.
After the Yak-3 broke off i bombed my two bases in order to get the research bonus and finished the match at 2nd place…
Short version:
Until late 2022 a single hit with the Swedish 13,2 mm auto cannon killed reliably any single engine fighter. The shells fired had an HE filler which caused pilot snipes and or engine / fuel fires and the gunner was accurate at ranges even > 3 km.
Out of of nowhere i was unable to hit anything at longer ranges and planes like XP-50s or Yak-3 are able to tanke 8-9 hits within 2 km without getting slower…and it looks like the cannon just fires AP rounds; i made the pilot yellow…
Pilots going exclusively for bombers are not really new - but from my perspective their numbers increased like hell.
With reference to the title “too fragile to play?”:
Yes. With just a few exceptions.
But - most bombers suffer also from artificial spread added to their turrets. That gaijin has done this on purpose is imho obvious.
I still see a need for a reversal of this spread.
If you fly fighters you might have noticed that gaijin has reduced the artificial spread for the 50 mm Me 262. Time for them to do this for bomber gunners too.
In one of the recent AAB battles I shot down a P-47D in a dogfight in a Soviet Ar-2. It took 8 or 9 laps before the single 7.62 ShKAS gradually ate it. And this was a Marshal with more than 30 days of playing the fighter!
Moreover, from the very beginning of the battle I deliberately went towards a distant side base, in a shallow dive, trying to achieve the maximum possible speed. And I tried to hide near the ground, using the mountainous terrain. But this bastard tagged along with me halfway to the base, although he could have taken the ground units, which was on the way and got more points.
In another similar situation, I ran away for a long time in a Pe-2, bombing three bases along the way, and in the end my bomber rammed an F4U, which could not shoot me down. I asked him: why was he sticking to me and got the answer “I’m just learning to play, fighters shoot me down quickly”. Snail made bombers such a simple punching bag that even noobs can see it.
Back in the days, it was “simpler” for new players to attack bombers…not necessarily “easier”. Bombers cant BnZ and manouver a lot…so it is easier to see the problem…it wasn’t necessarily easy to SOLVE it (back then).
It is also easier for new players to PLAY bombers…something you should also consider.
BUT i can admit that good experienced players are better at dogfights…
Nevertheless…it was fun and i played interceptor and bomber roles…i recall that attacking a Wellington was tricky and could never be done from behind…BUT german bombers were not so tricky as long as you didnt get above the bomber. I had fun learning deflection shots (as the fighter) and positioning for a good side attack.
THAT SAID…attacking the bombers was always a good option “for the team”…and far more interesting than going on ground attack…not sure why you resent fighters that try to do their job.
If i took 8 or 9 laps to kill a bomber, then i was not playing well and deserved the loss…that was the fun part…
NOWADAYS you need to get the kill on first lap…second at most…not because the bomber will get you…mostly because some other fighter will get the bomber.
Bombers should be able to defend themselves…but not go the other way and become fighter killers…that would also not make sense…IMHO.
Because they choose the easiest punching bag: the bomber. In 2013, for a gunship like the B-17E, they would be a self-farming RP/SL flyer and that was fair enough for those who just wanted to play the bomber for fun.
Since normal PVE hasn’t appeared in 10 years, all that’s left is to play on superlow BR, hindering newbies, or use the few bombers that still aren’t too weak, like B7A2.
Fast forward to 2025 and the B17 is masochistic joke that shatters like a bottle thrown at a brick wall when hit by a single 20mm. An unplayable piece of worthless trash whose gunners are incapable of landing a single hit, and then do no damage. Congrats on rewriting history Snail, the 8th USAAF just lost WW2 on the western front.
It’s so sad. A lot of cool planes are almost unplayable in terms of getting fun out of the game. I strive to spade all planes, but with all my love for playing on the bomber, with some I am not ready to do this, even if I am given a permanent 500% RP booster for them.
In reference to what you replied too. It is never just 1 20mm round. And I don’t think people realise how extremely fragile bombers were (Wellington Geodetic/geodesic design not taken into account for weight reasons and not standard).
Warthunder added bombers and made sure that the cap was only 4 (originally more were allowed at first). 4 was never enough in real life to defend themselves against 1 or 2 fighters if hit.
People complain that from their perspective “I was hit once and my tail was cut off”. In the replays you will note 2-6rounds actually hit their tail and the overpressure by those explosive rounds cut the tail off. Is this unrealistic? Short and Long answer No.
There is alot of evidence showing bombers that had 1 strafe against them, a couple of rounds hit their tail, overpressured the compartment enough and dynamic forces tore the entire tail clean off like ingame.
The only difference is that the destroyable segment numbers on bombers are abit few in number when they should be similar sizes to fighters. We understand that this would increase file sizes per bomber damage state models so the health being pooled together into larger sections makes sense.
But hopefully someday we get to see much more intricate damage model segments so that damage is shown to be more fluid in where it breaks. For most bomber players seeing a wing break off 9/10 in the same place or the tail will ofcourse give the wrong impression that there is something wrong with the model.
When in reality a section of the wing or tail near that segment damage model point was overstressed with damage registered and the closest segment breaking point is where the game registers the loss.
If you want a reference image on how just a few 30mm rounds will overpressure a tail clean off and how multiple more 20’s on a normal fighter attack against a bomber could. Here is 1 example recorded of a B-24 reportedly losing it’s entire tail to an Me-262 attack run:
You are writing about 20, 30 mm guns, but exactly the same thing happens with 7.62. Moreover, in the game it may be displayed as a slightly damaged wing edge, but the bomber loses normal controllability.
The second point: defensive weapons. AI gunners do not shoot normally even being aces, although in NAB similar AI shoot accurately at the target from several miles. Obviously, this is done intentionally, otherwise noobs who bought vehicle packs for themselves will suffer. The Snail needs to give them the opportunity to kill someone.
And finally, nothing prevents Snail from making normal targets for different types of vehicles, thoughtful map design. Something more interesting than a tangle of 30 planes in the center. The problem with bombers is that they are essentially forced to either fly into the general pile or get about 0 points per match. Everything is so “talentedly” designed.
If you are flying a bomber directly towards a target…your not flying bombers correctly. I lose points if I fly directly to a base since I die before getting there. Whilst side flying in arcs away from the mothball, allows me to release my payload and be able to land to get all 100% of the reward for bombing by rearming.
today I observed in naval arcade that bombs which where hit in-flight are shown in the killfeed - so it seems that they are handled like independent objects after(?) dropped from the plane and targetted by the ai. I never observed this before, don’t know if its new after the aimbot update or even in one of the last patches. nevertheless this behaviour is a additional nerf to planes!
It took me like 5 or so looping/yoyo passes to finally get its right engine to start burning and I got a decent aim when it comes to planes flying in a straight line.
I play AAB. All aircraft types have an air spawn point. No one takes off from an airfield. The only difference is the spawn altitude, but even at low BRs it is clearly not enough to get most bombers to a relatively safe altitude in a reasonable amount of time.
While you are side climbing in AAB, others will already dive to bases and ground, and you will get nothing. Except for hits from K/D rat, camping for bombers in skies, because it’s safest target.
Yes, kamikaze tactics have their risks, the bomber can be intercepted and shot down before you get to the base or a fat group of ground vehicles. But if you slip through, you can get much more RP and SL than a side climber who flew to destroyed bases and got zero.
I’ve tried different tactics on different bombers with different BRs, from reserves to 6.0, and played enough battles on bombers to express my opinion.
I noticed this a sometime ago when flying the IL-2. Several times I blew up my own bombs, dropping them on ground targets and firing at neighboring ones.
This is really a skill issue, now I don’t shoot near falling bombs, but switch to neighboring targets. Or I maneuver after dropping, so as not to hit my own bombs with shots.
Of course, this game mechanic looks more realistic than if the bomb was an intangible object that could not be interacted with in any way while it was flying towards its target. But I also understand the frustration of trying to side climb, successfully drop, possibly evade fighter attacks, and end up with nothing.
fully agree that bomby maybe hit and maybe explode by a certain probability- my critics is that this happens now much too often (ai actively target bombs) - esp. in naval matches
