The major problem for any SPAA w/o good abilities to fight-off tanks is THE MAPS.
For example, take a look on “Abandond Factory”, RB variant
Spoiler
Left team? Good luck for you, poor SPAA soul, on any BR, higher than 8.7. You literally HAVE NO PLACE TO GO OR HIDE, neither from tanks, neither from CAS, also your view field is severly screwed.
You think right team SPAA’s is doing any better? Sort off - atleast on hightier they can park their giant SAM “tubes” behind 2 buildings on spawn somewhat relatively safe from tanks. But that’s about it.
Overall, SPAA’s w/o selfdefence in both team is screwed, if their teammates loose any point and line on the map (could happenen EXTREMELY early here and happenes every single time).
But take a look on a SB variant of that map.
Spoiler
I can already see some possibility’s and “breathing space” for an AA w/o ground defence.
Just imagine, if Gaijin somehow implement SB maps sizes exclusively for an AA in regular RB matches.
Vehicle A has a strong advantage, resulting in it slowly moving up in BR as players play it and do well in it.
Gaijin removes said strong advantage without reducing it’s BR.
Players, seeing the now sad vehicle at a BR where it can’t compete, and with multiple better options, stop playing it. The few who do tend to be fans of the vehicle, and thus inflate the performance compared to the average.
Based on the now tiny sample size of good players, the vehicle never moves down.
This is the story of the T25, of the R2Y2s, and soon to be the Falcon and 30 DCA.
@Aegis270
The Falcon is one of if not the most popular SPAA at around that BR, and it’s ruined because of that APDS.
Removing the APDS and reducing its BR is the only way to save it.
Yeah but your opinion shouldn’t change it’s historical options.
Why are people charging/rushing SPAA in close range or urban maps? learn to play.
Stop taking our toys because you have a problem with SPAA use in knife fight maps.
They should be extremely dangerous in that environment.
Where do you stop? now you make SPAA defenceless to ground… nah.
If you’re hoping the large player numbers mean it won’t be abandoned, think again. The meta chasers will just switch to any of the various 35mm SPAA, one of the most meta being in the same tech tree at almost the same BR. Meanwhile, for those who don’t want to give up the 8.3 lineup, the Chieftain Marksman is now effectively a straight upgrade to the Falcon, having better APHE, access to APDS and a RADAR, at the cost of just being larger.
@Aegis270
Are you from the future? Cause the game hasn’t been updated yet…
Painting speculation as fact is not helpful to discussion.
Call for it to move down with the removal of APDS like the rest of us.
Cause Falcon is useless at 8.3 due to APDS causing it to be higher than it should be.
If it doesn’t move down, then it becomes a recurring demand for me as I play it post-change.
Watches as a driver known for driving off cliffs suddenly swerves and starts heading for a cliff.
“Raising the alarm now is entirely premature, we have no idea what their intentions are this time and so we should simply sit back and wait”
If you want the past to not repeat itself, you need to spot the patterns and start loudly warning against the patterns when they reappear, rather than merely waiting for the mistake to happen and then trying to do something.
These jets need nerfing not the spaa the jets and heli’s enter the battlefield constantly poping flares and chaffs (never seen mavrik do this) when spas finally gets to lock them the jets and heli’s activate ecm and drop bombs and missiles on spaa before we get to fire or if spaa can fire guided missile they just turn and its impossible to follow using sniper sight. Or jets fly 20k in the sky droping bombs on ground targets and 99% of spaa cant reach them. Its silly jets and heli’s need a cool down after firing flares or chaffs and either get ecm or chaffs not both further more reduce the travel distance of heli guided missiles because there is nothing worse that a heli that sits on there heli pad firing guided missiles in the sky and killing tanks 10 to 20k away and no one can defend them selfs from this.
The fundamental problem here is not just the falcon, it’s the fact that AA’s are used as tank destroyers and do a better job of it than tanks do.
The problem gaijin have is they created this beast, with AA’s being tank destroyers, they can’t get out of it. I mean, what they gonna do? Nerf all vehicles like the Gepard, XM etc so they can’t kill tanks and are solely AA?
Ok do that, then tell me how many people can be bothered trying to shoot down a plane in an AA that doesnt come with poxy shells, and a game where the shot lead indicator for radars is as much use as wet toilet paper. Lets face it, I bet about 10% of the people who spawn a gepard, XM, ZA or whatever do so with the intention of sitting in the spawn to kill planes.
So, they’ve taken the lazy option, just crunch a nation they dont like into the ground and leave it.
I consider it a crime not to use gun system AA to help the team kill tanks when the situation is a dire knife edge to win or lose. People need to get over it. Small maps AA should be strong there. Open planes easy MBT food.
“Left” as in Blue? I agree. Playing spaa on that side is a LOT harder than on the right.
There are other maps with similar problems.
Carpathians - again the Left side seems worse.
Port Novorossisysk (Conquest # 2) - again, the left is more cramped so arc of fire can be limited
waa waa it has x2 57 inaccurate guns on a slow base of t-55 with no armor, vs SPAAs with faster bases and good enough pen to penetrate most tanks if you come in contact, it’s SPAA for a reason not a multi tool " SPAAs (Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft guns/missiles)are designed to provide mobile, immediate defense for ground forces against hostile aircraft, helicopters, and drones. They use radar, electro-optical sensors, or manual targeting to guide high-rate-of-fire cannons or missiles to destroy low-to-medium altitude aerial targets" google is free, who cares about toxic SPAA players that ruin your game at slightest mistake, be for real
Falcon is one of UK’s funniest vehicles,but apds removal will completely destroy it.It is ridiculous that a spaa without radar in BR 8.3. Gaijin can balance it through rising BR instead of removing apds
It 100% SHOULD lose APDS and should have YEARS ago. It still has SAP-I that can LOL pen a T-72 from the side as far out as 1.5km. I believe it’s also historically accurate as it was never planed to have APDS.
If the SAP-I only preforms badly against tanks it can be moves down and actually do its job as an SPAA.
Russia/ Japan and yes I think the Su-30s should lose the Kh-38s to and they don’t actually use them, they are limited to the Su-34 I believe (at least in terms of currently in-game aircraft). But it should lose the APDS anyway, the SAP-I is still quite deadly. The historical accuracy is an iffy proposition with Gaijin due to their selective nature, but it’s good to add a little extra to a point.
