Snail has tried to make AA players only do AA duty for more than a decade without success. When I joined it was the Whirbelwind with 65mm pen APCR being whined about, even though that thing could only really melt tank sides and occasionally get lucky on a T-34/76 turret face.
Isn’t trying the same thing for 10 years without success a textbook example of insanity?
The problem with those is APHE overperformance. And the same people cheering for the Falcon getting hit with a wind turbine also voted AGAINST historically nerfing APHE postpen.
There are many longstanding issues with the game which fall under that quote. Expecting SPAAG to patiently sit back waiting for CAS when CAS is an unreliably present killstreak powerup, making it unnecessarily difficult to hit CAS before radar tiers, and not paying SPAAG well for killing CAS when they do hit it successfully is pretty much insanity. No amount of nerfing of AT ability will make players use it solely for AA duty - they’ll either not use it at all or continue using it poorly.
I trust Gaijin, which is why my statements on balancing aren’t my takes but ones stated by Gaijin staff at some stage.
Ground vehicles are balanced on what they’re most effective at; now sometimes this isn’t obvious, especially when players use it one way over another.
ZSU-57 for example is primarily used as anti-tank, despite it being equally useful as anti-air.
2S38 is used as anti-air despite it being better used as anti-tank.
And Falcon is used as anti-air despite it being horrific for the BR it is currently due to the presence of APDS.
Gaijin doesn’t want Britain to be competitive.
Same old shit.
One of the many reasons why I dont play so much anymore after all these years.
Honestly, the game is absolutely terrible these days.
I primarily hate Leo 1 cause of the ZSU-57-2. Its getting spammed against Leo teams and totally hardcounters those. Never encounter that much Gerpard + derivatives vs. Ground. Imho Gepard and its clones are too big, too high profile…not a good ambusher. Unlike ZSU.
You can use any wording you like but however it’s a fact vehicles are balanced by their effectiveness. You might be most effective at killing tanks, but air kills you make are also contributing to your overall balance.
Come on, you can do better.
Around ~18% of all kills made by 2S38 are air ones, so they’re definitely included in it’s balancing.
Same for Falcon, those ~21% of air kills are definitely included.
I thought Alvis was some god-tier SPAA player in the ZSU-57-2, just to see he has a single air kill in 51 games in it. Maybe he was confused with WZ305.
Maybe.
However, it doesn’t seem he found that “equal usefulness” when playing ZSU himself as he, for some reason, has 65x more ground kills than air ones.
I’ve been playing a lot (and I mean a lot) of Germany 7.0, and I can honestly say that the ZSU-57-2 is a joke to face when you’re in the air. You can hear it firing across the map (like M163), you can easily see the shells coming at you (it’s not some invisible AHEAD shell nonsense), and the rate of fire is not there. Add in that it is extremely vulnerable with most of the crew right there in the open top, making it vulnerable to a single burst of any CAS fire. We already all know this, though.
My biggest pet peeve is when something like the Gepard puts their radar down at game start and never lifts it again. I use SPAA against ground, but I always have SPAA there in my mind. I’ll stop what I’m doing and focus on air. But even then, I’ll always have way more ground kills because ground targets are more plentiful, there’s just simply way more ground targets to kill. Like, I had one game last night where I had 6 air kills in one game, but ground kills are still way more:
ZSU after the gun handling nerf has like 3.0 BR worthy AA performance.
It’s surely one of the most pathetic AAs for it’s BR when it comes to shooting down air.
Also, why is it still at the same BR as Coelian ?
Global statistics don’t point a rosy picture for air kills in the ZSU-57-2, either. Nor does actual real life experiences with the ZSU when it was used in Vietnam and other conflict zones. Only the WZ305 works as an SPAA because of the HE-VT shell. Where is this:
What do you mean bro ?
Whole community struggles to play ZSU as an AA at 7.0 (Alvis himself included), but somehow everyone is just plain dumb and can’t extract that “equal usefulness”.
Alvis has slipped up and proceeds to die on one of the most avoidable hills you could find in WT.
Global skill statistics don’t show high stats…
Well… yeah.
War Thunder’s playerbase and SPAA skill has not always been as good as MBT skill.
SPAA is harder to learn than planes or MBTs.
Especially when I am someone that uses vehicles outside of intended roles, especially one that I’ve used as anti-tank in Battlefield Vietnam.
@MotorolaCRO
Weird, you literally copy-pasted my take right here:
Are you sure you want to double down on claiming this statement is wrong?
I was on fields of Battlefield Vietnam in 2004, too. Global statistics are just that. The high stats are in there. The proportion of ground kills to air kills in the ZSU-57-2 is drastic and far out of proportion compared to more capable SPAA. It’s not about it having more ground kills in general, there will always be more ground targets to pick off than air targets even before any discussion regarding skill. We’re talking 42k air kills vs 721k ground kills in just over 1mil games. And you’re coming here saying it’s just as capable air and ground? It would be closer in air kills if it actually was a capable SPAA vs air, you know it.
Heck, the WZ305 has more air kills with only 300k games played total. What? are you going to say that only experienced players play China? Major nation skill tax on USSR? Give the ZSU-57-2 a HE-VT shell and increase its BR to 8.0 and you’ll see air kills increase significantly.
Lets face it, if you wanna SPAA as USSR at 7.0, you’re better off with this:
Spoiler
This whole discussion is dumb, btw. Not replying further.
