I wasn’t suggesting it happens all the time, or even that it is a common occurrence.
I was answering the question as to how a gun with 70mm pen can destroy a MBT. I showed one example on HOW that might happen.
Okay
Almost everyone will disagree with you in the current case.
Because
1- It gets APDS REMOVED
2- but BR WILL NOT CHANGE
3- AND WILL STILL SHARES SAME BR with Gephad, which still retains APDS.
If Gaijin buffs down the BR in the same change, maybe I could agree with you.
But not now.
For now, this is nothing more than another British tax because of hatred from the Great Game.
6 Likes
Whether the BR changes or not I’m going to play it.
If it doesn’t change, it will due to statistics.
If it does change, I’m using it where I want it to be anyway.
I think justifying Gaijin’s blunder because of your intention of playing is a bad move, I think.
There are possiblity of ‘Completely neglected because of a few statistics’ remains.
Look at Vampire FB.5 or R2Y2, which is inferior in almost all aspects compared to F-86A, but hasn’t taken care of for years.
I might be fine if Gaijin buffs BR when removing APDS in the same patch.
But I am not fine if Gaijin just removes APDS but doesn’t touch BR at all.
Especially, as I claimed earlier, Gephad with APDS still shares the same BR.
1 Like
Removing APDS is not a blunder, it’s what I’ve been demanding for years.
And people have called for it to be lowered in BR before I could post on the topic.
So no one’s justifying any “blunder”.
No no no no no, no moving goalpost on my watch.
I didn’t tell you that ‘Removing APDS itself is a blunder’
I told you that ‘I am fine if they buff the BR in the same update’
Yes, because it will be a good way of filling the air gap.
No, you are justifying Gaijin’s blunder that they are nerfing the SPAA first for ‘unpromising, potential’ buff in ‘future’
BTW, a bit off topic, did you read my reply, which I wrote to you at the copy-paste topic? I thought you replys on it, but getting neglected was quite unexpected.
1 Like
The major problem for any SPAA w/o good abilities to fight-off tanks is THE MAPS.
For example, take a look on “Abandond Factory”, RB variant
Spoiler
Left team? Good luck for you, poor SPAA soul, on any BR, higher than 8.7. You literally HAVE NO PLACE TO GO OR HIDE, neither from tanks, neither from CAS, also your view field is severly screwed.
You think right team SPAA’s is doing any better? Sort off - atleast on hightier they can park their giant SAM “tubes” behind 2 buildings on spawn somewhat relatively safe from tanks. But that’s about it.
Overall, SPAA’s w/o selfdefence in both team is screwed, if their teammates loose any point and line on the map (could happenen EXTREMELY early here and happenes every single time).
But take a look on a SB variant of that map.
Spoiler
I can already see some possibility’s and “breathing space” for an AA w/o ground defence.
Just imagine, if Gaijin somehow implement SB maps sizes exclusively for an AA in regular RB matches.
Or because of the classic Gaijin two step.
- Vehicle A has a strong advantage, resulting in it slowly moving up in BR as players play it and do well in it.
- Gaijin removes said strong advantage without reducing it’s BR.
- Players, seeing the now sad vehicle at a BR where it can’t compete, and with multiple better options, stop playing it. The few who do tend to be fans of the vehicle, and thus inflate the performance compared to the average.
- Based on the now tiny sample size of good players, the vehicle never moves down.
This is the story of the T25, of the R2Y2s, and soon to be the Falcon and 30 DCA.
2 Likes
On these small and urban maps SPAA should be more dangerous, I put it back on Gaijin to make maps more realistic.
More bias. What is the standard for historical vehicles if you remove what they have? just make everything fantasy machines at that stage.
What buffs are we getting for all the unhistorical nerfs, half the British Tree in particular is horrible to paly as it is.
@Aegis270
The Falcon is one of if not the most popular SPAA at around that BR, and it’s ruined because of that APDS.
Removing the APDS and reducing its BR is the only way to save it.
Yeah but your opinion shouldn’t change it’s historical options.
Why are people charging/rushing SPAA in close range or urban maps? learn to play.
Stop taking our toys because you have a problem with SPAA use in knife fight maps.
They should be extremely dangerous in that environment.
Where do you stop? now you make SPAA defenceless to ground… nah.
Which they pointedly didn’t do.
If you’re hoping the large player numbers mean it won’t be abandoned, think again. The meta chasers will just switch to any of the various 35mm SPAA, one of the most meta being in the same tech tree at almost the same BR. Meanwhile, for those who don’t want to give up the 8.3 lineup, the Chieftain Marksman is now effectively a straight upgrade to the Falcon, having better APHE, access to APDS and a RADAR, at the cost of just being larger.
1 Like
@Aegis270
Are you from the future? Cause the game hasn’t been updated yet…
Painting speculation as fact is not helpful to discussion.
Call for it to move down with the removal of APDS like the rest of us.
Cause Falcon is useless at 8.3 due to APDS causing it to be higher than it should be.
If it doesn’t move down, then it becomes a recurring demand for me as I play it post-change.
Watches as a driver known for driving off cliffs suddenly swerves and starts heading for a cliff.
“Raising the alarm now is entirely premature, we have no idea what their intentions are this time and so we should simply sit back and wait”
If you want the past to not repeat itself, you need to spot the patterns and start loudly warning against the patterns when they reappear, rather than merely waiting for the mistake to happen and then trying to do something.
4 Likes
These jets need nerfing not the spaa the jets and heli’s enter the battlefield constantly poping flares and chaffs (never seen mavrik do this) when spas finally gets to lock them the jets and heli’s activate ecm and drop bombs and missiles on spaa before we get to fire or if spaa can fire guided missile they just turn and its impossible to follow using sniper sight. Or jets fly 20k in the sky droping bombs on ground targets and 99% of spaa cant reach them. Its silly jets and heli’s need a cool down after firing flares or chaffs and either get ecm or chaffs not both further more reduce the travel distance of heli guided missiles because there is nothing worse that a heli that sits on there heli pad firing guided missiles in the sky and killing tanks 10 to 20k away and no one can defend them selfs from this.
The fundamental problem here is not just the falcon, it’s the fact that AA’s are used as tank destroyers and do a better job of it than tanks do.
The problem gaijin have is they created this beast, with AA’s being tank destroyers, they can’t get out of it. I mean, what they gonna do? Nerf all vehicles like the Gepard, XM etc so they can’t kill tanks and are solely AA?
Ok do that, then tell me how many people can be bothered trying to shoot down a plane in an AA that doesnt come with poxy shells, and a game where the shot lead indicator for radars is as much use as wet toilet paper. Lets face it, I bet about 10% of the people who spawn a gepard, XM, ZA or whatever do so with the intention of sitting in the spawn to kill planes.
So, they’ve taken the lazy option, just crunch a nation they dont like into the ground and leave it.
2 Likes
Warthunder doesnt strive to be 100% historical. Some ahistorical changes have to be made for gameplay purposes.
You won’t see that removed from russian 2s6, ever
I consider it a crime not to use gun system AA to help the team kill tanks when the situation is a dire knife edge to win or lose. People need to get over it. Small maps AA should be strong there. Open planes easy MBT food.
“Left” as in Blue? I agree. Playing spaa on that side is a LOT harder than on the right.
There are other maps with similar problems.
Carpathians - again the Left side seems worse.
Port Novorossisysk (Conquest # 2) - again, the left is more cramped so arc of fire can be limited