An argument for pseudohistorical balancing in CAS

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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1

I have come to realize that the current state of balance between close air support and SPAA is absurd. Additionally, CAS is, in BR, paired extremely ahistorically with most tanks at the same BR in ground RB.

That being the case, a sort of reset may be necessary. Specifically, Gaijin has the power to make a drastic change without drastic consequences: Moving SPAA and CAS aircraft together relative to all other ground vehicles.

Let me explain.

SPAA are generally weak against similar BR tanks. SPAA are the way that ground vehicles in general counterplay against aircraft. At the end of the day, a CAS aircraft destroying a non-SPAA ground vehicle does not have any particular balance between each other. It doesn’t matter if it’s a P-47 or an F-15E, the ground vehicle has little counterplay, as the SPAA in the same team must do the counterplay.

This means that aircraft and tanks are actually pretty isolated from each other in balance. As long as the SPAA didn’t become way too powerful when fighting other tanks, you could move them up or down drastically and, in doing so, move the CAS drastically up or down in BR too inside the ground battles.

I believe this can be used for pseudo historical BR placement for aircraft relative to the tanks. For instance, currently, the Vietnam era F-4E Phantom II is similar in BR in ground battles to an M1A1, a vehicle 10-15 years younger. You can move the F-4E and the SPAA that counter it down in BR and gain more historical matchmaking at no balance cost.

This applies to essentially every CAS aircraft. Many aircraft are compressed to the point of uselessness as there are simply far superior options available at the same BR, for instance, the entire A-7 family, MiG-27s, Tornadoes, Buccaneers, Fitters, Jaguars, Viggens, and so on. This also applies to many helicopters.

We could decompress without compressing anything else. The SPAA vs CAS aircraft part of Ground RB balance can be shifted largely consequence free up or down relative to the entire rest of ground RB balance.

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So moving a F-4 to battle rating 7.7 would bring a balance into the game? Or maybe, limit the F-15E to 10.7 because the Pantsir-S1 is way too late to fight it, I’m confused.

Historical matchmaking won’t happening in War Thunder, at least not at the moment specially in arcade and realistic battles.

3

More like 9.0 in Ground only. We already have split BRs between ground RB and all other gamemodes for aircraft. A little closer, not all the way.

There’s a bunch of aircraft that have absolutely no business facing Pantsir. F-15E isn’t one of them, it’s still in service so frankly historical MM would keep it, in ground battles, with literally the highest BR pretty much forever. Even when F-35s and such would be added.

I’m not advocating for a historical MM, but a pseudohistorical one. We can get closer, decompress CAS relative to SPAA, and make a bunch of vehicles useful again, while pushing better SPAA lower in BR. Pretty much everything but Pantsir could go down in BR as SPAA.

Gepard, Type 87, Shilka, Sgt York, etc could all go down in BR. Because the tanks in 6.7-7.7 are actually higher armored relatively speaking, they wouldn’t become more powerful relative to tanks.

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Moving down AAA at the same time? AAA are too new for the ground rn maybe make it more below won’t bring that impact? questionable but possible though…

What about the worst tie-breaker, Helis? Gepards shoots planes with iron bombs well but not a heli sitting 4km away, so are the stingers, strela etc; And when it comes to Roland it’s almost useful against heli but 0 threat against planes…

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Only at top tier is there any issue.

SPAA vs CAS balance is fine imo up to around 10.7/11.0 at which point it shifts radically towards being favoured by CAS.

This is also where the compression kicks in the hardest, with tanks that should be a full BR apart at the same BR and having 3x air BRs all fighting each other. Its only at this BR range where certain aircraft become “useless” .

I think more than a few top tier SPAA shouldnt be at the BRs they are. ADATS for example should probably be more like 11.0. and there are certainly a few SPAA that could perhaps nudge down a little lower. But the biggest problem at the lower BRs is gaps in the trees rather than outright imbalance. Like a 9.3 CAS vs 9.3 SPAA is fairly balanced but a few nations have to use an 8.3 SPAA at 9.3 which isnt.

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6

SPAA definitely lags behind CAS in the 5.0-7.0 area, mostly due to how easy it is to get and use, and that most nations lack a good AA that’s both armoured, and good against aircraft. Facing half of the entire US airforce at 6.7 isn’t very enjoyable in my opinion.

I agree, especially since there are options to add for many nations as far as I know.

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7

I still think this is more due to a total lack of SPAA at or around this BR / The SPAA that would be good at that BR are also good vs tanks. Like the Falcon and so sit too high (for the SPAAG role)

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I agree. I think the issue could be solved with like 1-2BR total of decompression of aircraft and SPAA only, leaving all other ground vehicles alone.
Currently, F-16A always ends up fighting Pantsir and Su-30SM in ground. Incomprehensible!

Either Pantsir and F-15E and Su-30SM need to go up like 1-3BRs in ground, creating a bracket far from the highest ground vehicles where the only reason someone would be there is because they have very capable CAS/SPAA, or Gepards and the like need to go down and so do the CAS aircraft they counter.

I don’t think pushing iron bomb CAS down actually affects that much, as until you get guided weapons, a CAS plane is a CAS plane is a CAS plane. None of them are really especially more capable in ways that should affect BR.

One of the most effective CAS aircraft in the game for me in the Japanese tree up to the Alpha Jets is the 1.3 BR B5N2 Kate. Why? It gets an 800kg bomb and a bombing sight, and is unbelievably maneuverable.

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