According to me and everyone else, the entire platform matters, including flight performance.
I’ve been stating this for years…
@Mytho-GR1
I certainly hope that becomes the case in the future when radar simulation improves.
You’re right, it will be a 0.4 BR difference most likely, or 0.7 BR. Regardless of that, that will leave us with a capability gap… who would’ve thought.
Other than you previously insinuating that ICE would be at a higher BR than F-16s that will also likely sport AMRAAMs, but who cares right.
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Yes, and on balance, the MiG-29G is the better aircraft in comparison to the F-4F ICE because it has significantly better flight performance, better IR missiles, and a helmet mounted sight.
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I didn’t comment on F-16 with AMRAAMs yet, and I apologize that I didn’t prior as that clearly caused some issue.
I think that F-16 with AMRAAMs will be in one of two situations.
It’ll either be on-par in BVR to F-4F ICE and Mirage 2000 5F… OR it and Mirage 2000 5F will be 0.3 BRs superior [not necessarily 0.3 higher than F-4F ICE, I just realized how my wording can cause issue but I cannot fix it].
I cannot accurately estimate that because of the performance gap the F-4F ICE causes between it and two superior platforms.
I do not know if 4x 9Ms and 4x AIM-120B/Cs will be enough to close the gap.
I have this concern just as many others.
And the reason I forgot to include this is clearly because I have a very work-in-progress line of thought regarding this.
I want to say it’s one or the other, but I cannot because I don’t know cause none of us have experience in the War Thunder ecosystem with this disparity yet.
All I know for certain is F-4F ICE will NOT be a higher BR than an AMRAAM carrying F-16.
Performing well in BVR is useful, but it is not what the War Thunder meta favours now and the introduction of AMRAAM will not change that. The meta favours aircraft that can dogfight as evidenced by the dominance of the Gripen. The F-4F ICE is going to get smoked when it comes up against any 4th gen fighter.
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??
Lets do a headcount of stuff that F-4F does worse;
- less CM’s
- worse flight performance
- at best a comparable if not an inferior radar
- comparable if not lesser missile loadout
Buuut somehow it could sit at the same BR? This isn’t even EJ vs AJ situation where the former has more missiles, F-16s with AMRAAMs do everything outright better.
I cannot accurately estimate that because of the performance gap the F-4F ICE causes between it and two superior platforms.
We can. Take F-16AJ & F-4 EJ Kai, why is the former 0.3 BR higher? Better flight performance (by far the most important aspect at top tier). M2K with MICA would also do most of the stuff better.
Now throw in AMRAAMs, so that both airframes have an identical amount of missiles, now the ICE has no advantage when it comes to kill potential. Throw in less CM’s, another hit. No helmet mounted display? Vine boom mp.4
Going by your logic, EJ Kai should be sharing BR with MiG-29G & Gripen, but it isn’t.
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This^
If we had proper map with procer distances, i’d say the F4F ICE would be a good BVR platform, however with the current size of the maps and implementation of SAHR and AHR missiles, it would struggle and be pointless, because it just doesn’t have the performance to dogfight, its too easy to close the gap currently betwen fighters.
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F-4F ICE has more missiles than F-16, maybe same amount as Mirage 2000 5F, don’t know that one’s limitations yet.
Definitely on-par minimum radar, the F-18 radar is rather strong.
Worse flight performance for sure, we obviously will agree on this.
As for countermeasures… this is difficult cause it’s 120 chaff, or 30 flares 60 chaff.
That’s 2 AIM-9M defeats, or up to 3 R-73s if you’re off AB when they’re launched.
F-16 is up to 120 standard sure, definitely more flares as an option.
As for EJ Kai and F-16A… these are two aircraft flung into a WVR furball management game mode, and they’re 0.3 apart.
That’s why I don’t know if they’ll still be 0.3 apart as we lose WVR engagements, not necessarily get rid of, but reduce.
You are overestimating the importance of BVR. If you hug the ground, BVR is simply a non-factor, SARH and ARH missiles will not be able to hit you. What matters most is who has the best WVR performance, who has the best IR missiles, who has a HMS, who has the better P/W ratio, who has the better nose authority, who can sustain a turn for longer, and so on.
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That’s with missiles that tell you when people are locked and launched.
AIM-120s don’t give that warning until they’re 16km or less from you.
F-16s likely coming to Argentina!
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No thanks, Hispanic nations shouldn’t be scattered between several countries when they can potentially create a Hispanic (or even Iberoamerican) tree by themselves.
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At least they should add for Germany the IAe 33 Pulqui II, it was made with German know how by Kurt Tank.
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cough benelux cough
chances are high latam wont come either because its combined tree still lacks stuff massively
That, and they are already divided amongst Germany and Italy at the moment
Argentina mounted Shafrir 2s on their sabres actually, I haven’t found anything indicating they used the regular Shafrir. (I know I’m like a year late, and maybe someone brought this up, but I didn’t see anyone correct this when I skimmed the thread, so thought I’d mention this).
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Tambien habria que acordarse que estan los Pucara Fenix (version actualizada de los IA-58) y de los Pampa, que estaba el Pampa 2000 (es el nombre del IA-63 Pampa para comercializar al Pampa) que fue adquirido por EEUU, tambien los Pampa II y Pampa III y sus respectivos bloques, se podrian añadir en Alemania debido a que en Terrestres se encuentran los Tam y el SK-105 A2, tambien habria que recordar que argentina actualmente esta incorporando los Tam 2C A2 y esta haciendo pruebas con una bomba guiada en los IA-63 Pampa III (La FAS-850 Dardo II).
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guys there is any Argentina warthunder discord server available? i need to talk with some people about planes.
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Hi buddy, I’m a bit out of touch with these topics, but maybe they can help you here WT LATAM Project
They will help you @Lord_Frezzco @COLDOWN @AspandaIV @OsO73
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Argentine Sabres also utilized rocketpods. Not unique to Argentina since Spanish Sabres also used rocketpods though they used different ones. In the case of Argentine Sabres, its uses, FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets, to SNEBS to even a domestic rocketpod so it would also be decent at ground attack & being a lawn mower
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