Both the AMX30 and AMX30 ACRA are such painful vehicles to play no matter their BR. But they are most certainly not equivalent to their other BR cousins.
AMX30 is strictly worse than the Leo. Heat vs HEATFS shouldn’t be a big difference, but this game has wildly different postpen values for them. The option of a APDS round on the leo really makes the difference clear. The 20mm on the leo is nearly non-functional with its inability to stay on target while firing your main gun. Not only that, it has bizarely tiny postpen damage on the AP rounds. I’ve played the marder, same gun here but strangely far worse performance. With the inclusion of HE in the belt, that means you need a lot of hits to kill even light vehicles. Then you have a giant cupola the Leo doesn’t have making your profile taller and more area to OHK your vehicle with. Then you have the suspension that rocks horribly vs the rather firm leo suspension. Not a question which vehicle is better.
The AMX30 ACRA is one of the worst thought out vehicles i can think of. Its an ATGM firing tank. Except because of the barrel launch, it has recoil. That means not only do you have the new ATGM drop, you also have a wobble until your tank settles from your fire. Atgms will regularly hit terrain near you as they fly up and down from your recoil. The M551 and M60A2 are bad, but functional due to stabs. Without a stab, this tank is nearly non-functional.
AMX30 at 7.7 isn’t going to hurt anything. Fast but poor postpen means most 6.7s are perfectly functional aganist it. No stab and bad suspension rocking make it just as vulnerable to 6.7s as 6.7s are to it.
The ACRA is just bad and 8.0 isn’t going to improve it much, but gives it a justifyable location below the other barrel atgm carriers due to its lack of stab.
This is not the fault of the AMX 30, keep in mind that the damage model of all the bullets should be modified, since for example the HEAT and HEAT-FS projectiles do not do correct damage, and should do much more damage, especially If when penetrating they have more than 100mm of penetration left over. Regarding the HEAT of the AMX 30, that bullet would have to directly do the same damage as a HEAT-FS or even more, since it was a type of HEAT that made the outer part rotate leaving the bullet inside rotating at a much lower speed, which achieved more penetration (= damage) and precision compared to a HEAT-FS from the leopard.
But we deal with whats in game. Getting the devs to fix round types is a lost cause. Balance based on what we have.
AMX-30 is a Leopard 1 with 20mm coax. It’s fine at 8.0.
ACRA is a better gun accurate at all ranges, it’s fine at 8.3.
The changes were made to give 6.7s a good break.
And 8.0 is decompressed from 9.3 as well, since 9.3 use to be 9.0 over a year ago.
AMX30 is a leo 1 with a non-functional coax, huge cupola, and strictly worse rounds. Its not fine at 8.0 as i explain above.
ACRA has a better gun, but no capability to use it due to the missile guidance and the rocking without a stab. Its not fine at 8.3 as i explain above.
The changes were made to compress 7.3 to 8.7. 6.7s can still see tanks like the conq and 50-120 that have every advantage over them. I’m aware everything moved up. I’m saying the amx30 was overteired and still is. The leo was way underteired and remained so, despite being better than the amx30.
400mm of HEAT pen, 20mm is objectively superior to 30 cals, and cupola doesn’t matter at this BR.
The 20mm is still not an effective AT weapon, much the same as 30 cals aren’t. I’ve gotten killed more often trying to kill light vehicles with it rather than using the main gun than i have got kills with it. The 20mm and the 105 can’t be used together due to recoil.
Leo has the same pen but better postpen and APDS rounds
DF105 has the same gun as the amx30, same BR, but has a 4s reload. Infinately better vehicle, somehow the same BR.
Cupola matters for AA. Easy pen every where the SAP rounds will often bounce most of your turret.
I really don’t know what to say, if you can’t make 57mm of penetration work vs light armor then it’s on you, and why would you use apds when the heat shell does more damage?
As for the cupola… the same sap rounds from the 40mm if i’m correct, can pen the leopard turret cheeks, and you have a 20mm to defend yourself which can pen the spaa anywhere.
As for the df105, it’s made of paper.
Because HEAT is eaten by every fence and bush while APDS has higher velocity for long range and has similar postpen. Especially with front-engine vehicles where HEAT gets eaten by the engine while APDS goes through.
30mm also have SAP-I round. 35mm have API-T with explosive payload. With 62-68 pen they struggle to go through the mantlet but will obliterate that cupola.
So you are trying to use one 20mm vs 2 30/35mms and hoping your 20mm HVAP rounds are doing more internal damage than his 2x30/35mm APHE (equivalent) rounds. Yeah, sounds like a bad idea. If you try to use the 105, you aren’t firing the 20mm because those shots are going everywhere.
Yes, the df105 is paper. But the AMX30 doesn’t have much durability either. And almost twice the fire rate (8.7s vs 5s) is a HUGE advantage. Especially when HEAT is notorious at not killing in one hit.
I am BR 8.3 myself as USSR, and the problem isn’t just with French tanks, but that we’re all getting uptiered to 9.0 and 9.3 in over half of the matches.
The difference is that no french tank gets stabs at 8.0 or 8.3. Pretty massive difference in capabilities when you can’t shoot on the move and have to settle your gun before firing.
But you do have quicker reload time and rangefinder modification on the AMX-30 at least, plus you have reverse gearbox.
On top of that you also get the MARS 15 which is definitely an incredibly strong contender for France as well.
Blame the French.
I think the early AMX’s suffer from BR compression if anything. 8.0 feels like pure sh*t to play a lot of the time since a 0.3/0.7 BR jump sees you fighting fully stabilised tanks, however downtiering a tank from 1972 isn’t the solution.
The Ratel 90 is from 1972. Its 6.3 and is barely functional even there. You don’t balance on year, you balance on capability.
The Leo and AMX30 have the same reload, 8.7-6.7s. Having a rangefinder isn’t a good justification for the same BR as a far better tank. The reverse gear is nice, but its not like the leo is all that slow in reverse. Still doesn’t make up for the far worse rounds.
I found the MARS to be mediocre. The only thing it has is size. 270 pen is very low. The AMX-10 was much better for me. Thermals and 350 pen for the cost of a larger profile. Together they are good at 8.3, but the AMX30 and amx30 ACRA were both really bad. Hence the thread.
the AMX-30 is a slow Leopard 1 with 20mm coax with weird angled turrent armor which can bounce most shells
If both are stock, I would take the Leo-1 any day. Its so much faster and more responsive. It’s also really bad in uptiers due to it not having a stabilizer or any “modern” tech like an lrf or a high velocity round. It also has a much larger profile than a leo 1, and the cupola is huge aswell.
I don’t think it should go down, but everything around it should go up.
I am almost only playing the french tree, there is a lot of issue about it but the AMX30 br. is clearly not an issue. The HEAT round performs very well. The only vehicle that might need a br. change are the Leclerc, with the new rank 8 (better armor, spall liner) the Leclerc is clearly suffering. (Same for other minor nations top tier tanks)
Despite many suggested vehicles that could have gone at 8.3 over the years, the gap has noever been fixed up to now.
Though I hope they fix it soon given they recently gave France a few good updates (i mean come on the easiest solution is literally a copy paste with zero remodelling)