I happened to stumble onto the WT Data Project (https://wt.controlnet.space/) and wasnt shocked at what i saw when looking at the ground RB results. 1) i do not know how they collect data so i do not know if it is accurate, i assume they just get it from available server data. 2) Israel and USA might as well be the same country with how they are 90% of the time grouped together, and britain being an allied nation often is lumped with them, so those 2 nations, israel and britain, also suffering is no surprise.
The point of this post is to ask what is going on with the abysmal win rate at top tier for USA? Its been that bad for over a year (since 4/7/2023). I have been on a hiatus from warthunder for a while, and when i started playing again a couple of weeks ago at top tier american tanks i was shocked with how badly they were getting decimated. I mean 90% of my teams would be gone in 10 minutes with less than 3 kills total. Is it just a bad playerbase, or bad tanks? Have they really made the abrams unplayable? Or is it clickbait spam with people that dont know how to read a map or work as a team? (but why isnt russia suffering the same problem with their t80 premium?) Genuinely just curious as to your thoughts and what could even be done about it, because whenever im with american teams i dont even want to play the match its so bad.
Also side note to the italian super machine with a supposed W/R of 75% WHAT CHADS lmao.
There have been many discussions about this. It is a mix of bad players, and poor matchmaking.
poor matchmaking? In what ways do they (USA) suffer from poorer match making than other nations?
Not gonna lie been playing the Italian tech tree and been having a blast. Not as bad as people say it is.
i cant imagine people saying its bad with a win rate like that, thats gonna get gaijined sooner or later lmao might even end up playing it myself. almost done with the japanese trees, italy, china, and france are my last ones and i think ill go italy next.
I completely finished the USA ground and heli tree then finished japans/UK/Germany/Isreal, and honestly having a 78% winrate and a 3 kdr with the 2a7 is a joke. The fact it isnt 12.7 to be out of the 11.3 bracket is hilarious to me
My opinion is that it is because
-
Premium spam
US teams have high amounts of players who bought their way to top tier. This usually means they have less game knowledge and they are more likely to leave the match after 1 death -
US TT players also seem to be CAS oriented. Hopping in a jet or heli as quick as possible makes it easy for the enemy team to gain a strong foothold on the map and take/hold objectives which wins the game.
IMO it’s not really a balance issue (as far as vehicles go)
Abrams, today, is more punishing to errors than other tanks, combine that with noob spam and boom: low WR.
I think they need to lower the skill floor on abrams to compensate the massive number of noobs playing it (11.3+), maybe increasing the armor and lowering reload rate and other things, i dont really know.
And yes, abrams is a good tank, but you really need to know how to position your self or you will get shot, and that or it will immobilize you 100% (engine+turret ring) or you will die direct. And you cant negate how boring top tier is right now bc of US, 3min matches, not really good and exiting matches, just stomping. I prefer 100% a more noob friendly abrams and better matches than today situation.
I started playing a bit of usa top tier to see myself how bad it is and can sum it up like this: They fail to spawn their f16c or whatever cas they have and proceed to 1 death leave without being of any use to the team. Rare occasion they manage to not get curb stomped by leopard and get enough SP for the f16c, but still manage to die to a pansir instantly like a bot.
Only fair excuse for them, the airspace gets so cluttered by russian air late game. Ka52s, sm3s, 27/29s, and pansirs. So it other words a new spaa would be a good addition, but it is unlikely the average braindead usa enjoyer would spawn one regardless
Bredas are really good
can confirm. I see way more click baits and AIMs than i ever do any tech tree abrams, as well as wolfpacks.
brother the pantsir is really oppressive. You literally cannot go above the treeline on most maps lmao
They usually get matched against Germany/Sweden, the best countries at top tier. If not, they’re matched against Russia which is another very strong country
For the ones saying, as always, that it’s the Premium spam’s fault, I will just quote my reply on another topic:
You know, since everyone is claiming that “U.S does bad because of Click-Bait spam”, I decided to put a 13.0 plane on my lineup to avoid them entirely; it worked! And…
Oh, wait, my Abrams still gets one-hit killed by point-and-clicking on it from the front, even with the worst Top Tier shells.
Oh, wait, we still got steamrolled.
How strange, I thought it was all the Click-Bait players’ fault! :(
hm, how often would you say thats the case in your experience?
- America players are just bad.
- The Abrams takes a lot more skill to play than a Leopard or T-80. Russia mains aren’t that much better than America mains, but the T series tanks are much more forgiving because of their armor. The Leopard is a straight upgrade of the Abrams, only inferior because of its reload. So it is much more noob friendly as well. The Abrams is not a bad tank.
- A lot of people say “If the fault belongs to Click-Bait players, why are 11.7+ America players bad too?” That’s because the Click-Bait has been around since last year, unlike the Canadian leopard or T-80U-E1 which just came out. This has given the bad click-bait players more turns to grind the tree, allowing them to unlock tanks like the SEPV2. They’re still bad at the game, just they’ve spent more time playing than the newer click-bait players. Another reason is that people who own CAS aircraft at 11.7+ bring the Click-Bait as their tank to play their aircraft, meaning they’re just as bad as normal click-bait players, just they have air vehicles to bring with them.
- With time, Russia and Germany will get more and more of an influx of bad players, however the issue will never be as bad as it is with America because the Abrams is much harder to play for new players. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good tank, but takes more skill than a Leopard or T-80. I am beginning to see more and more 2A7V and T-90M players be simply awful at the game, doing really stupid stuff, and the number of those people is going to only increase.
I hear you, and raise the question of: if a vehicle is so much more difficult to play than other vehicles at its BR, should its BR be lowered to a BR that puts it against vehicles with similar difficulties to play well? Because what is difficulty if not overcoming challenges? And if the vehicle is challenging, does challenging and bad not have some sort of correlation?
(a little bit of devils advocate, i am a big position player, honestly a proper player should be able to get a kill in any of these tanks at any BR if they position correctly, save for maybe some tanks with no penetration lol)
I think the T series tanks are fine at 11.7, the Abrams is better in the hands of a skilled player but the Leopard 2A7V should absolutely go to 12.0 whenever the maximum BR for ground is raised again. That way, the Abrams will still be at an appropriate battle rating, but the Leopards will have gone up because they are better.
Because M1A2 tanks are 11.3, max, but the developer tries with all his might to make it look like 11.7, so we see 5 seconds reload time, M829A2 APFSDS. On Sep B2 even smoke grenade launchers were available immediately after purchase. The whole US 11.7 is bad, ADATS is a mediocre anti-aircraft gun worse than the Tunguska, the worst is the AH-64D. Yes there is a great F-16C, but its br 12.7.
Why would i spawn F16C when i know i’m gonna get shot down the moment i try to do something, playing with aim120 is fun untill you gotta deal with Pantsir, and there’s 4 of them scattered all over the map.