What?
I didnt bring out any player stats.
Player stats speaks for itself by its definition that it being the very result of detailed gameplay, at the same time accounting for all playstyles, given that the stats listed includes all BRs and Nations, aka everyone doing everything.
Because you said so? There are a lot of fixes that can be made and won’t directly affect ground vehicles stats(such as the range of spikes for example), but will seriously improve the quality of life for helicopters.
And? Whole game is not played the way the army operates IRL.
BR drop so heli would get a less serious spaa as enemy? Early apaches will be totally fine vs roland/osa/2c6 for example.
okay, and the point being?
No, not because I said so. Because the operating circumstances of helicopters IRL is way different than we have in game.
Helicopters have no realistic way to defend themselves against SAM sites or incoming aircraft. There are a few exceptions, specifically the Z-9 and such with the TY-90’s against aircraft, but that’s it.
While I do agree many helicopters could use a lower BR, early SAM’s will still give them a run for their money, because they simply were never designed with the idea of fighting SAM’s.
Helis don’t really have a place in the meta without their FnF missiles, and I don’t think they ever will.
And the operating circumstances of planes/MBT/IFV/SPAA IRL is way different than we have in game.
It’s irrelevant were they designed for that IRL or not. In the game, their capabilities will be quite enough for such a fight.
Here is the best way I could put it:
You are right, the operating circumstances of every vehicle are different than real life, but you have to understand where the philosophy of helicopters came from. Helicopters are made with the purpose of engaging infantry and ground vehicles. They were given missiles like Stingers on the very small off chance of an enemy aircraft engaging them.
In War Thunder, what we have is a large amount of aircraft that can shred through helis instantly, because helis are slow, unmanueverable, and cannot adequately defend themselves. You say that helis can fight against SAM’s, but is that really true?
Unless the heli has FnF missiles, a SAM will spot and will shoot down a heli the moment it appears on radar or they spot it visually. Hellfires and other AGM’s aren’t nearly as fast, and don’t have IOG from what I remember. Leaving you with 2 options:
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Guide it in and take the very high risk that you get smoked by a SAM.
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Dip behind cover and waste another missile.
Helicopters cannot exist effectively in the current ground RB battlefield. If you move them down too much, then you have them fighting gun SPAA and IR SAM’s, which will make it nigh invulnerable in the right hands. But the moment they start fighting radar guided SAM’s, they immediately become ineffective.
Point being that the conclusion from the stats automatically takes counterplays and prices to pay for both sides into consideration. Reasons as above.
Global vehicle stats of BMPT show that it is nothing special but it is seen as one of the best vehicles.
Quote here, and it means:
November to April
Adds up to global:
Let’s not call most helis (yes no ldircm no fnf) anything better than normal before they reach this stats. I like this statement
I used BMPT as the example as You were praising it in other topic in regard to show that stats don’t always reflect how vehicle is.
Overall stats don’t showcase how good vehicle is and using them doesn’t reflect what it can actually do.
To which extent?
We’re not looking at 0.1 δkd or δkr to determine if bmpt(72) is better than bmpt(nothing) (yet it still is despite the prem issues with pack one) yes ofc.
We’re looking at 3 times or more difference.
Similar logic to that we use to kick ppl out of discussion when they have 0.5kd, but we don’t use it to determine skills by 10 or 20 kr. Just in a relative way.
When talking about helis some key things need to be understood first.
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Most of the helis start with ungided weaponary which means that they have to get close to the battlefield in order to do any kills, not to mention that most of the ungided weaponary is just weak. In order to research guided ammo You have to die, a lot.
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The strongest enemy to the helis is not SPAA but rather air itself and in that case most of the helis have no chance against the air. Not to mention that both helipads don’t have any AA weaponary (You can test it) and only airport is going to help You.
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Most of the players are bad at using helis, like with any vehicle in the game.
When we consider 3 of the things we already can understand why comparing stats of ground/plane to heli is meaningless, same goes with using overall heli stats in order to balance it.
So I had to test the ranges first with FIM-92K as to not go on spouting nonsesne (thx @Master_Teaz)
The lock-on ranges were entirely different to what i remember year ago ro so (when I couldnt lock Hind at 2.2km)
Superhind and HFS-80 over 7km lock-on range but missile self destructs at 6.5km, Lynx was 4.4km lock, Bo105 was 2.8 km, AH-1G was 2.5km.
Havent tested it in real battle but I for now retract my previous statement.
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Now we’re leaving ss11 carriers for it’s not useful for you anymore
Yes Buff Helirush
But you know what: you can filter to only see the stats of prem helis. Hald 1kd before crossing out the ptw ones. And see the games played - not by the unskilled majority
Least seen
Skill is ofc needed for both sides. How much on each side is the balance.
You mean the 3 helis that have guided ammo at the start?
Not really.
Not really. Or have You got any data to back it up?
This has been years just play spaa and get bored.
If you have read my posts you would know making it 100sp can be a buff.
count…
So no actual data, great to hear.
I am not ready to discuss incredible theories that are unrelated to reality from a person who has zero experience in helicopters.
If you don’t believe that Apache with hellfires will be fine against 10.3 - 10.7 sam (even slightly too strong vs 10.3), then I can’t imagine how to convince you, except to make a big guide to hellfires with a lot of video examples. I’ll probably do it one day, but not today for sure.
Some 10.3 and all 10.7+ have 2-4 guided missiles from start. And almost everyone grind upgrades in PvE because it’s much more profitable than heli rush for most players.
You won’t listen to my impchap stats anyways, nor how it matches statshark, nor the fact that actual spawns aren’t given by gaijin.
or maybe look at spaa g2a kr, 0.3 for gepard, 0.6 for tung etc. compared to pantsirSM’s >1
Obviously no separated stats for CAP, just as no separated bt5 killing leo2 logs. Maybe search forum to see the number of posts around CAP.