Welp such document (Sweden one) never really explain if substitute armor (Export V1) was on par with DU armor.
But if substitute armor (Export V1) was more of less on par with DU package. Why would Sweden ask US to send tank with DU armor package in the first place anyway ?
- From what we know it’s better than other materials
- We have a lot of it and it’s cheap + easily accessible by govt
- It’s all locally made unlike tungsten, so the supply can’t be cut off as easily in a war (tungsten also mostly comes from China iirc)
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Could be to see differences between substitute armor vs DU. Its hard to say realistically unless i was there or had more info. Realistically they were impressed with the armor for the most part with the vehicles which is why they looked at making armor modifications for all vehicles during these trials. Regardless it was just a suggestion based on other more modern examples like the aim and M1A1T. If i knew more id post it but i dont believe any soecifc material was listed in any of the reports, i know for the armor solutions which showed swedish modifications there is occasionally a mention of a material but it doesnt really help that much.
Edit had to check with some peeps, so the Abrams used had a special armor that offered similar values to the DU model since DU wasn’t available for testing. Apparently the Abrams in sweden weighed a tad bit more than a standard abrams with DU by a few hundred kilograms.
Green equals better armor. Sweden planned on additional armor plating.
These are also images from a test bed turret they they set up. I believe many of the numbers from the trials were either given by the manufacturers or were obtained via testing.
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The Swedish export package was not on on par with the domestic Du package.
There is reason why the Swedish were demanding DU package but were ultimately denied.
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Denied due to “reason”
Thanks for the info
Tungsten, like most materials comes from China because it’s cheap. Not because we don’t have access to it. There’s very few minerals or anything the U.S. doesn’t have, or a lot of materials for that matter. It’s not about not having it, it’s not that China has it and we don’t.
It’s that China is tooled up for it and makes it now. We could do the same, but globalization has made them the main producer because of cost.
Like how OPEC(Russia) never wanted to shut down oil production because every time they do, it made it profitable for US to extract more and ceded more market share to us, until we’re now the largest producer and refiner of oil.
China has the market because they’re tooled for it and have made it so other couldn’t exist profitably and that gave them the lions share of the market. The minute prices go up or national emergency exits, expect a quick tooling to get it done as fast as possible.
For Posterity, Kenny sent me the document and it states the 116 Abrams there are all un-du’d.
Though I can find nothing to say that the Sepv3’s will be anything other than US versions. Especially since they’ll be given m829a2,3(and I think 4 but don’t quote me) DU apfsds. So I imagine if they’re getting the darts they’re getting the DU armor.
But he was right for anyone else reading it.
Well yeah but still, like you said that requires making tooling when we already have all that in place for DU.
Ppl hate on nuclear power but it’s like the only method of power generation with a beneficial byproduct (ye ik DU is made as byproduct of enrichment but still)
DU is also extremely good radiation shielding so I wonder if that makes an Abrams slightly safer than a Leopard if a nuke goes off and they are in the radiation range
The “Tank Protection Levels” isn´t a source. It was a super old website serving as a compendium of mostly unsourced guesses. I don´t even think the website is online anymore. I think the original author pulled the M1 figures from a Zaloga work published back in the early 2000s. Nevertheless most of the figures attributed to the most modern tanks then are gross overestimations. Case in point:
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I still honestly question If they even still use DU within sepv3s armor. NGAP (next generation armor package) is an entirely new armor composition and very possible they just don’t use DU. I also found that each country that brought (Poland and Australia) Sepv3s have different serial numbers on their turret which usually indicates different armor packages on the abrams for foreign export. On US sepv3s M is the suffix code for NGAP just like how U was the suffix code for DU armor on Sepv2s. As the images point out the Polish sepv3 is MP and for Australia is just A.
It’s very possible that it could be some kind of export NGAP armor package for sepv3.
DU benefit the abrams “moderately” so i dont see a reason why not, its cheap, offer decent benefit
And yk when something is cheap and offer decent benefit(aside from weight-its fat regardless) the US would definitely implement it on the tank
Or maybe the export NGAP doesnt have DU but the domestic one does
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Weight is currenlty the biggest issue for any MBT, and DU is currently not the best ingredient for armor as technologies for other evolved.
SEP v3’s crew manual clearly doesn’t include crew evasion manual when armor damaged, which was included in every Abrams crew manual with DU turret armor. This may means Kenny110’s assumption right.
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They without a doubt use DU in SEPV3 armor package. It specifically had to be removed and a redesigned armor area with similar protection for sales to Australia.
how would this affect the armor value and protection?
we arent sure how heavy the NGAP abrams are and how much are the weight reduction
in all fairness maybe the US would prioritize the crews over weight of the vehicle more right
no one knows but theories
Was there a document stating that? I could never find it.
Let me see if I can find the article I read about it.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/06/2023-02377/arms-sales-notification
This one talks about needing a bespoke armor package. The article I found before (i think) referenced this and another one to say how they required the creation of a different armor array because DU was a non starter for OZ.
what is the quote that conclude ur statement?(im lazy-in the article)
Its this quote that kind of confirms that there is actually DU within NGAP armor composition.
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