It’s funny how the gameplay suggestions section is incredibly inactive. Short-sighted Gaijin may be under the impression that players are so content with the current product that they see little need for alterations…
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Only certain kind of players are active enough on forum to dig in other place than “General Discussion”
Just check active player count and number of people actively posting in other categories.
If Gaijin prioritise feedback form only that specific group of people that are committed enough to go through the hoops, than they don’t have representative feedback. If Gaijin prioritise feedback from minority that fit certain profile, than decisions that are being taken will satisfy mostly players that fit that profile.
Even taking feedback from whole forum is not much, but I guess that is the best they can have.
I play game for about 12 years now and I can’t say I spent much time on forum at all. I just rather play the game.
What kind of feedback is here provided?
A hell of players using a game mode for PvE activities without impact on the match result and complain about that their stationary targets do not respawn fast enough and hamper their selfish PvE grinding mission in a PvP dominated mode?
Seriously?
Imagine that Ground RB would be flooded with players which do not capture and hold / defend points or try to kill enemies (the only 2 win conditions) as they would prefer to kill/destroy respawning stationary ai fortifications (with little to zero impact on the match result) as this is way easier than playing the objective. Killing those ai targets requires no skill as the fortifications won’t shoot back, the task can be done by a script. And due whatever reasons this respawn is delayed and those players would complain about it.
This is exactly what happened in this thread.
So basically this feedback is a complaint that players can’t play the game objectives without win conditions fast enough.
Amazing feedback…
Fair point, attack aircraft, especially the A-10 and Su-25, are best at CAS. However, we’re also not good enough at high tier ground rb to earn a plane so what’s the point of having attack aircraft?
Gaijin wants to sell you the idea that the game supports all aircraft types. It’s a big marketing issue that there are so many models in the game. However, it only really supports fighters. That’s why the new Skill Bonus only awards extra points for player kills. Everyone else is just meat in the sandwich.
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I am not sure if you talk about yourself using the 3rd person “we” or if you are talking for a certain group of players, but:
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In both cases the usefulness of certain aircraft is determined by the player using it, the game set up / meta and the BR where it is placed.
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With the same attitude you can ask why people spawn in Sterlings or Wellingtons in Air RB despite their chances to survive are lower than a snowflake in hell…
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It boils down to the fact that gaijin fails to provide similar levels of usefulness or purpose for certain aircraft classes throughout the whole BR range.
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The lack of any useful in-game tutorials how to use certain aircraft in certain modes is correct, but imho any investment needs an upfront cost / benefit assessment.
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So you can decide as a single player a match with a Ju 88 A-1 at BR 2.0 with pure PvE or with a Wyvern at 4.3 with playing PvP & PvE - but at higher BRs the PvP aspect is decisive. Especially if PvE with killing bases is useless.
So the fellow player above is right - the game is basically a shooter like CoD and favors PvP.
Therefore the fellow players which struggle with PvP in strike aircraft / bombers whilst playing Air RB should focus on giving them a real purpose regarding win conditions instead of asking for more PvE targets or faster base respawns.
I simply fail to understand why people spend 70$ for a bunch of pixels and use them to play PvE whilst being mostly just easy prey for PvP players without having a chance to win a match due to lack of game impact…where is the fun?
Ach, there can still be some “fun” to be had. I recently re-aced my Wellington’s after Gaijin added some more mods. Getting in a bombing run, dragging 1,2 or even 3 fighters down low and away from the dogfight, maybe a Crit or a Kill on the way. It still helps team effort by impacting the score and making some fighters easier prey.
That’s only true in lower tiers though.
In RB, yes. Other modes find fighters at a disadvantage, because maches are usually decided on the ground.
Why do people move to RB regardless? Well, the food is better.
Ah yes, the decade old (or more) discussion if Air RB/AB should allow bombers, GF and ticket system at all.
Does playing to reduce Tickets rather than players counts as playing to win?
I actually like variety and that variety a strength of this game. The fact that I can play the way I feel at the moment and that Air games are not reduced to being a Kill Box for TDM. I enjoy flying various machines in various roles to unlock even more machines.
The one you don’t agree with, obviously.
Bottom line is that Gaijin added in recent time more an more Jets with huge payloads. You need enough targets to utilise it or what’s the point to add “bombers” at all?
Even from your “Killing-focused” point of view, the players that will need to wait 5 min for base respawn, flying with 3-5 tones of bombs will be even less effective until they will drop the bombs. In Air RB pilots usually drop payload on first approach and than carry on with fighting enemy or reducing through PvE.
Literally one of the main selling points for new patch is Jet with Great top speed and crazy big payload.
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I have filed in a suggestion for that on November 2nd (two weeks ago). So far it is still pending and waiting for approval…
So far I have been enjoying this game on a very casual level and came to the forums just recently and only because of this particular change. Hence I’m quite unfamiliar with the procedures, but 2 weeks without any movement makes me question if potentially uncomfortable suggestions will ever appear at all. Following that, I think it is quite useless to have a “Suggestion” section when you restrict those suggestion at your will.
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So as Air RB has at least in theory 3 win conditions
- TDM
- Ticket win by going 0 within the match, or having more > 25 minutes
- Airfield kill
…guys with strike aircraft / bombers at high or top BRs have zero impact with base bombing as fighters with high bomb load can do the same but faster and can contribute to win condition #1, Number 2 is extremely rare at higher BR and #3 is impossible due to respawning bases.
Imho you missed my entire pov by accident, due to translation issues or or on purpose; idk what was unclear.
So if you see the feedback as a whole they complain that the bases respawn too slow, there are too few of them etc, but those players will die without the chance to win as long as the average match duration is 5-8 minutes decided by TDM. I watch replays of friends playing top tier frequently, but i never saw a match won by base bombing…
This is my main point:
So instead of increasing the number of players doing their “grinding thing” it would make actually much more sense to increase the usefulness of their actions.
It boils down that PvE actions at higher tiers have are far less smaller (minimal) ticket effect than they should have - at lower tiers just 1-2 Wyverns can win matches in less than 4 minutes (Tunisia) if they remain uncontested, but at higher tiers those pilots die without having the chance to win the game if they focus on base bombing.
And imho you are missing another point :
Not everybody actually uses his fighter after dropping bombs on bases for A2A combat like you describe - so even if they can do this in theory, it simply looks that a lot of rather inexperienced pilots prefer to repeat bomb runs…
And these planes are luring totally rookie pilots into Air RB, allowing them to score a few points with useless base bombing whilst being just ez prey.
So from a very holistic pov Air RB is actually dead from a competition perspective as pilots actually interested in playing and enjoying the game mode are in the minority as too many players are using the mode just as a grinding tool.
The outcome of most matches is more or less a random result based on the number of PvE players on your team, usually the team with less PvE players wins. And even in case you have the same levels of them: this 16 vs 16 nonsense combined with massive weather interference kills the necessary situational awareness - so either u play 8 vs 2 or 2 vs 8 after a few minutes - in both cases skill doesn’t matter anymore.
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Hoe dare players use efficient grinding methods in a grind based game! The audacity! 😲
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The problem is not the grind, the problem is the flood of clueless pilots in Air RB attracted by this low skill requiring grind method with bombing respawning bases in order to gain SL/RP. That the same job can be done by a bot is evidence enough.
As long as this base bombing does not fulfill any win conditions those guys produce no added value for their teams, it is just the opposite.
So the game might be grinding based, but it is still a game some people try to enjoy - as long as the majority of players are on their “speed grinding the TT” or “earning SL/RP” tours without enjoying playing the game here and now it is just sad to see how this stupid roll-out of respawning bases in May 2020 has altered Air RB.
Just look at some stat cards when you play next time Air RB, pure pilots became the absolute minority, the majority are tankers which are used to die and lose matches in Ground RB, just a few show the will to win an Air RB match at all cost - despite they give everything they have in their favorite mode Ground RB in close matches.
Imagine the economy between Air RB and Ground RB would be reversed:
- Ground RB would be flooded with clueless tankers, but excellent pilots. Gaining some SPs to spawn a fighter with a cap rush and some scouting is not that difficult.
- But even if the majority would fail to get enough spawn points they would simply leave the match and increase their ODL issues.
- And in case they get into a plane they would simply farm any tankers trying to use CAS planes or bomb the lobby to pieces.
- They would not care if they win or lose as long as farming less experienced pilots or bombing more or less helpless guys in tanks would be an “efficient grinding tool”.
So if you read my posts carefully you might realize that i simply asked the guys complaining about respawn times of bases to rethink their position that it might be helpful to give them a win condition whilst they are dying like flies so that their sacrifice was not useless regarding the result of the match…
This game would be so much funner and better for our minds if we could just enjoy the game without a daunting grind ahead of us. The truth is, Base grinding offers a more consistent grinding experience.
The fact that more players would rather base grind, than progress with kills, is a symptom of an abusive game progression scheme.
The player-base was much healthier the first couple years of this game. For the simple reason that the grind didn’t seem like an impossible endeavor.
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Perhaps you should focus on Tournaments if you are looking for more competitive experience?
Speaking for myself, I always focus first on conditions of the active tasks for Season pass, than to possibly win. I rarely go into WT with competitive mind set.
Without going into the details and balance issues. the game is not fit for the true e-sport experience.
It is not a bad thing, It’s part of its charm. I’m glad Gaijin is embracing it in their way.
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Although i agree with you in general - i do not think that focusing on kills is really required to have fun. So even as a strike fighter / bomber pilot pilot you can influence the outcome with attacking the right targets at the right time - but usually only at prop BRs and then in just in a few planes.
As soon as the speed gap gets too high and skill matters less as technical or raw plane performance can’t be compensated with skill you are done.
But the game is more or less a shooter, so you actually need at least the skill to defend yourself if necessary, even if you prefer playing PvE (either if you just want to grind or you like the more relaxing play style of a bomber).
So it is a pity to see a hell of players dying in their grinding runs without having the chance to make a difference…
I do not see any correlation between asking for a purposeful gameplay and participation in tournaments.
In fact the game forces long term players without grinding needs to find niches and workarounds to compensate all these flaws and weaknesses of the game (which newer players are not even aware of) in order to create a mix of fun and challenge whilst playing.
The only guys i see in Air RB with too much emphasis on competitiveness are members of stat padder squads seal clubbing at ranks I & II trying to push their win and kpb ratios.
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You clearly don’t understand people can find different aspects of the game fun than you and you look down at players that don’t share your needs.
I really don’t want to waste time writing and reading essays on the forum. Try to think about how other people can have different goals and what goals are available in the game to choose from which is plenty.
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I am not sure if you have the necessary reading comprehension and/or mind reading capabilities which would allow you to distinguish between an observation and your assessment of my intentions whilst writing them.
Again, maybe just a translation issue. So no worries - but you are wrong with your assumption and, ofc, your conclusion.
See my first remark.
I am also not sure why you think that complex topics can be answered in few sentences. If they are too long for you, nobody forces you to read them.
A short reminder:
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You started this exchange after complaining about base respawning and an exchange with a tech mod. Even if i don’t agree with this tech mod about certain aspects of game play and game mechanics he gave you a very good recommendation how to proceed in this case.
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And you started this feedback discussion. My part was limited to the assessment to the quality of the feedback within this thread regarding the motivations behind this feedback.
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So if you start tomorrow a poll “Should SL/RP income increased by 25%?” you will most likely get an overwhelming “Yes” - but the feedback won’t change anything.
Finally i am convinced that the introduction of this respawning base nonsense was a direct reaction by gaijin to hundreds (if not thousands) of posts complaining about quick matches due to airfield kills.
Especially you as a very experienced player benefit the most from the current situation (as you can base bomb or farm enemy base bombers) and are able to deal with the options the game offers, but you are surrounded by rather inexperienced players without these options or the necessary insight - at least on average.
Sad that a rather interesting discussion comes now to an end as you assess your time as as more valuable than mine, but i see no sense in continuing this exchange.
I wonder if a new game mode could be created, one that combines air and ground. Ground players could call in air support from air players like in real life. Fighter aircraft would still be handy to have as they could attack enemy CAS planes and enemy fighters attacking allied CAS planes. There could also potentially be structures that could be destroyed to slow enemy movement, bridges for example. You would be limited to the type of vehicle - air or ground - that you started with but have three or more spawns.
The ultimate extension of this would be to include naval, using battleships and heavy cruisers for shore bombardment and escorts to protect them. But I think the engine / server would have a hissy fit if that was attempted.
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You clearly made my previous point by further insulting me.
Well done!
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