I haven’t had a chance to test them yet, waiting for the top tier GSB rotation. Until then I am cautious to call it fixed.
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Honestly the air defense in this case can be done with a low-poly (think similar to original tank models in air RB) long range SAM like I-HAWK or 2K12 Kub, which need their own large radar detection system and tracking system (usually individually trailer mounted) that could cover air defense up to like 20-30km (or more, depends on system) if implemented correctly. It would also dissuade airfield bombing because you’d need to first disable the radar with an anti-radiation missile (which would probably also be needed), essentially killing two birds with one stone.
Personally here I think it would be best for something like this to be only defended by MANPADs, since most “heli bases” are usually ad-hoc and setup temporarily. In that sense they could be also extremely hard to find, because you wouldn’t have an obvious radar signature to guide you there from the air defense.
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Just turn the bombing targets into Helipads. Gives them risk and reward for spawning closer to the frontline. Helipads are ad-hoc, but are very obvious as they create quite the environmental impact either cutting down trees or rotor wash disturbing brush. They shouldn’t be stealth bases.
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With the radar changes and rotors finally getting radar signatures, helicopters are no longer the stealth aircraft they once were. However with the multipathing effect still as exaggerated as it is, and “‘certain’” helicopters getting to just be immune to IR missiles from all angles, they are still not suitable for ASB.
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If that’s the case, why not just kill it with GUN?
Besides, the point about not responding to IR would be enough of a problem with GRBs and the like.
This would be an insufficient reason why helicopters should not participate in ASB.
Lmao too much butthurt so you flag the response til it gets taken down
See below for the gaijin censored version
Yes throw away every advantage you have against a helicopter and fly headfirst at it for guns. Meanwhile he can point and click with mouse aim on your helicopter and then his autotracker will do all the work for him in butchering you with his 20-30mm or in the case of handheld Russian helicopters, shove a PF Vihkr down your throat. Truly genius response.
It is 100% a reason to keep them out of ASB. If they want to play in Sim then they need to be properly modeled to the level of Sim aircraft. That includes deadzones in their DIRCM. Until that is resolved then no, they should not get to play in Air Sim
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As for the Vihkr threat to aircraft, the Su-39 and Su-25T are already available and will not have a significant impact.
More importantly, the main problem is that helicopters cannot be studied by aircraft players.
It is important that helicopters be made available at SBEC so that aircraft players can easily build a foundation for researching helicopters.
Vihkrs coming from a frogfoot are in no way comparable to vihkrs from a vehicle which can literally turn on a dime, and point and click on any direction. And if you don’t think they will have a significant impact you are not educated enough on the subject for this discussion
If that’s the case, we should put off the implementation of helicopters equipped with Vihkr at first and implement the other helicopters.
I will say it clearly.
The actual helicopters will only be a theoretical theory if helicopters are not actually implemented in the SBEC with the helicopters in the field.
The primary difference that I’ve found between flying both of them is that the Ka-52 isn’t capable of firing out to the Vikhr’s max range, as you simply don’t have the energy boost of the Su-25T[M]
You don’t need to be able to hit at max range though, because they are impervious to IR missiles and benefit from a lack of accurate modeling of SARHs guidance, the only reliable way to kill them is with AGMs which you won’t be taking in a fighter load out, or guns which brings jets easily within Vihkr or points and click autotracker range for your own guns.
You normally do. To keep the Ka-52 effective in any way, you need range. It’s very heavy for close-in combat, and a very spicy target for SAMs.
Firing a Vikhr from an Su-25T[M] can push it all the way out to its 10km launch range.
Fire a Vikhr from a Ka-52, and it’ll be falling out of the sky 7km away from you.
What SARH guidance are you talking about?
Better yet, who would take a fighter loadout into a GRB/GSB match?
The Vikhr is unbelievably easy to dodge in any aircraft above 10.0-10.3, and if you want to avoid the guns it’s just like any other vehicle with a basic ballistics tracker. You evade.
Did you even look at the title of this topic?
Yes? What does that have to do with my questions?
Again, what sense is there to take a purely A/A loadout into either GRB or GSB?
What SARH missiles are you talking about?
Helicopter rotors should be screaming targets for SARH seekers. In game they are not. Until less than a month ago, rotors didn’t even give radar returns. This gives helicopters free reign to sit wherever they want altitude-wise, when they should fear breaking ground clutter and multipathing, regardless of whether there are SPAA or not.
In GSB it’s pretty common to have 4-6 air targets at the beginning of a match, a full A/A loadout makes perfect sense.
But regardless, this is not about GSB, it’s about ASB, where you will be taking a full A/A loadout 90% of the time.
Which does nothing to solve the issue of the helicopter skullfucking your allies on the ground or in ASB, camping an airfield. Just avoiding the helicopter is not a reasonable response as the whole point is the helicopter should be hard countered by fighter sweeps, not getting to whatever it wants because of the handholding it gets and jet pilots being forced back to guns to deal with them.
Are they not? I’ve had no problems locking helicopters with radars ranging from the APG-68v7, the Sapphire-21/23, the APQ-120/APG-59, or the RDI and Cyrano.
That was never an issue? Every helicopter could be locked by any pulse radar since pretty much always. CW obviously won’t work against standstill targets, as with any other doppler-based signal.
I see what you mean now, I was wildly off track.
It’s a surefire way to avoid dying to the helicopter and get you within range to spew some bullets at it?
Did anybody say to avoid the helicopter?
If you don’t want to be forced to use guns, load some monopulse weaponry or tell modern militaries to stop putting DIRCM systems on helicopters.
Now you can lock, but your missile does not guide, regardless of how much output the rotors are throwing off. This is not realistic.
It does not. Because unlike fixed wing aircraft, helicopters are operating in Arcade+ flight models. It’s the equivalent of having aircraft with no G-overload on the wings. The agility of helicopters in game far exceeds what they should be capable of without snapping rotors, or falling into the ground, well before recovery. Every helicopter I’ve tried can do a standing flip with 200m or less of altitude, fully laden. That is absolutely UFO levels of flight quality. All this leads to a helicopter pilot able to easily point, turn, dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge and then point and click his autotracker guns back onto target ( if they even lost track), kill the jet, and then recover from whatever maneuvers they made. It’s absolutely bonkers how it was acceptable for them to be added to Sim in this state. And that is assuming you even managed to dodge the volley of TY-90s or Vihkrs (15G BTW despite “small control surfaces”) having bled any speed advantage you would have had from that.
Monopulse that doesn’t work against the same targets that the radar has no issues maintaining a lock on in the first place…
And glad to know militaries have developed a DIRCM system that works through the fuselage of an aircraft, really next level stuff… DIRCM literally gives KA-52 and Mi-28NM a fantasy missile shield. It should not be functional against a missile fired from above, the emitters are on the bottom. They also should have 0 effect on a seekers ability to lock the aircraft prior to launch. They rely on the MAWS to detect a launch and then defeat the threat. This means the missile should still be capable of leaving the rails in the proper direction and only begin to deviate after traveling a small distance, which would improve it’s kill potential when being forced into going guns anyway. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be effective at defeating IR missiles, but they are vastly over-performing in the defeat because of how simplified they are.
And much like everything to do with helicopters, they are not fit to be added to Sim until these simplifications are fixed. If people want to fly their Arcade+ machines, Heli EC is there and the Ground modes sadly have already been infected with them.
You can lock with what? I can fire an AA-20 and whine about the same thing, but that isn’t a monopulse missile.
Name me one instance of an articulated or teetering rotor “snapping” off due to maneuvers.
Now go ahead and tell me what effect bouncing your RPMs has on your engines, let alone how the implementation of over-torque physics is incorrect.
You can fall to the ground a myriad of ways. Overspeeding, stalled engines, damaged engines / transmission, collective dumps, so on.
Funny, here’s an AH-64 doing just that, returning to around the same altitude it started at.
Then again… What reason is there for them not to do it? An argument of incredulity has no basis.
I never knew “bonkers” could be a substantiated descriptor of what is wrong with a FM.
Oh, right, it isn’t.
What?
Then go ahead and post a fix to it.
Geee… that sure is a fast moving standing flip ya got there. Almost like he wasn’t standing at all.
At a standstill you can do the exact same >100m?