I’ve been making a slew of posts over the last couple of weeks over this, but they’ve just been dismissed. So I’ve decided to prove that these cannons are bugged to some end. Take a look at the video that follows and see if they seems fair for 37mm and 23mm cannons which are generally known to kill instantly.
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If you haven’t yet. Might be worth doing some matches with air target belts for pure HEF/HEFI shells and another with armoured targets for pure API-T for the 37mm and same again with 23mm, perticularly the stealth vs air target belt.
Id also set up a keybind to allow you to fire each canon seperately, see what is and isnt doing damage. It may very well be that 1 canon is fine and the other isnt performing correctly and its just bad luck that is resulting in kills not being acquired.
This testing could be done in test flight
If the AP rounds seem to be doing a lot more than HEF shells on the 37mm then Id guess for some reason the realshatter isnt working (assuming it is/was modeled previously) as this is very reminiscent of the dark days of realsh!tter where the best belts to use on the Hispanos was ground belts because the AP was the only round that worked.
Once you’ve got some data and narrowed it down to a specific shell type and/or canon if possible, You’ll need to submit a bug report
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder?from=now%252Fd-6mo&to=now%252Fd
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In this video, I was running Air Targets. However, I have tried both Air and Armoured target belts and they perform functionally identical; which is to say horribly. The 37mm also seems to (mostly) function fine in terms of damage but the NS-23s seem ridiculously underpowered, which can also be seen in the attached video in which I only use the NS-23s. Just so we’re clear, I expect these cannons to be on the same level at least as an M2 Browning or Hispano 20mm, but comparatively they consistently underperform. The target in the video only suffered a small fire and right flap damage.
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Then the issue is probably with the Fi-T shells in the 23mm. But have you tried stealth belts for that gun yet?
Though they are different rounds entirely to the Hispano, with the Hispano being HEI and the 23mm being Fi. So there is the possibility that they will perform differently. So its probably some issue with the shrapnel on the 23mm
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I have not tried stealth belts, but I have tried Armoured Target belts (3 AP-I rounds and 1 FI-T for a tracer) and they performed functionally the same. Stealth belts simply have one more AP-I instead of the tracer, but the AP-Is and FI-Ts feel exactly the same against aircraft, neither do much actual damage to any critical areas. It is especially evident in head-ons when my plane sustains worse damage from a 12.7mm Browning than the enemy sustains from many NS-23 rounds. I do believe it is a fundamental issue with the gun and not the FI-T rounds however, because all of the rounds do little damage at all. Mostly the 37mm is the only weapon capable of doing much damage, and even then it is very unreliable.
comapring to the 12.7mm Browning is tricky because something like the F-86 or F-84 is firing 6x 1200-1300 rpm guns whilst you are firing 2x 500 rpm canons. Quality vs Quantity.
So you are best off comparing to Hispano, though again, something like the Meteor is firing 4x 600-750 rpm so much larger burst mass. So it possible that round for round they arent far off, but the far smaller burst mass (from those 2 guns) is as much to blame for the low damage.
This is meant to be offset by the 37mm which you say is doing reasonable damage but requires landing good hits with an even lower RoF gun.
No, it probably is some issue with the shrapnel from the FI-T shells. AP can be a little hit and miss on actual damage and usually requires weakspot targeting, like knocking out engines and pilots. Which is a lot easier when talking about props, but much harder with jets.
Your best bet is to just try a bug report. Do some tests in test flight with FI-T from the 23mm only (you should be able to use the primary weapon selection to choose exactly which guns to fire) and put some bursts into the ai targets, if you are getting a lot of hits, but not a lot in the way of critical damage, grab a screenshot using F12 and record a clip, then create a bug report for inconsistant damage from those shells.
Its at least a starting point.
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I love it when my low velocity limited ammo low cyclic rate hard to aim gun doesn’t do damage
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indeed one of the best cases of perfect balancing in the whole world 🤦♂️
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sure, I’ll try testing the 23mms with FI-T in a test flight and see what’s happening with it.
this seems right on paper, but the one-second burst mass of the guns on the Su-9 in question is 9kg, against the 3kg of Sabres and Thunderjets that it faces at 7.0. not sure if that’s exactly right for what you’re talking about, and I get that US guns have a more “quality over quantity” approach, but looking at the rounds compared (from Reddit), it makes less sense that planes can tank these rounds so easily:
Especially considering that pilots “only required one round to down a Sabre” in real life, the balancing on these cannons is wonky if upwards of six rounds are hitting a Ho 229 and it simply shrugs off the shots.
EDIT: After a short while of testing shots onto the flank of a MiG-15bis in test drive, I have concluded that it is an issue with the netcode. It’s definitely an issue, as I have experienced this issue in a multitude of different matches, but I doubt it’s a user issue or “just a fluke” if it happens consistently during matches.
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Okay, so this is where you hit best case scenario.
Yes, that is 30mm HEF and not even that does more than hull damage, because it’s empty space back there.
You missed vitals, that’s it.
And your 2nd video shows that the cannons seem fine.
Perhaps you’re right, but I hit just to the left of the pilot beforehand as well, which is visible in the video. In either case, would the hull and wing damage shown there not cause the wing to snap? A 37mm and 2 23mms would surely disrupt the structure of the wing in any case.
“And your 2nd video shows that the cannons seem fine.”
Does it? If a 20mm can instantly shred my plane in one shot, I fully expect 8 23mm rounds to do more than “Hit”, especially since I was hitting near the vital areas of the plane with shrapnel ammo. It would make sense for a Browning to do less damage in those areas, but again I’ll pull the quote that the guns “only required one round to down a Sabre”.
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He has 4 20mm guns and all have a higher fire rate. One “shot” is more projectiles down range.
As for the only one round, that context is likely engine hit.
perhaps so. although, he cut the entire tail off with a tiny burst of AP, which doesn’t happen to me ever, even if I run AP and hit someone from a flank into their tail. I suppose it is ridiculous to expect my guns to be good, but they are sort of the only possible redeeming factor with 29 second turn times and crap flight dynamics such as the USSR had at this time.
I definitely think it is the guns’ fault why I can’t do well though, in planes like the Yak-3P and Yak-1 I can get very good performance and >1.5 K/D, but the early jets average around 0.55 K/D for me, even though I play fairly safe in them.
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HE is still bugged, you roll a dice and wait to see if it will do damage or not.
There’s a bugreport on it here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/yNSVIDHLOnwd
You could create one of your own if you want, but am pretty sure that Gaijin will close it as a duplicate and link you this one.
Also, from which version are your clips? If you don’t mind we could include them in the report if they ever ask for more.
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Excuse me sir, this is a marketing lie. we do not accept any nerfs to russian vehicles here.
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Its not. He’s wanting a buff. The damage from the 23mm canons found on Rank V/VI jets seems inconsistant in damage
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You guys also need to take into account the lag and desync from gaijin’s top-quality servers.
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desync might actually be a factor though. the low velocity of the cannons basically makes them more like brick lobbers than actual guns, so visually leading is very difficult. this means, of course, that when an enemy is in a completely different place to where you think you need to lead…
30 rounds of 37mm into outer space.
Both of these clips are from version 2.47.0.72, although it has been like this pretty much since I started with the Rank V planes. Keep in mind, the La-9 with pretty much the same armament was leagues better than the Rank Vs, even against early jets like F-80As, so I’m convinced it’s an issue with the aircraft and not a blanket “the NS-23s”.
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