About removing loader bonuses from expert/aced crew training

I’m all for a rework, but because of reasons stated above I believe there’s not much to expect from it.
The inherit difference between the machine and human loading is a problem here, so solving it without some unrealistic features or major disturbances is hard.

I wish we lived in a perfect world where crew skills would just disappear tonight and vehicles would balance themselves out automatically, but sadly this is WT and those things are outside of out reach.

We still have higher crew skill points gain in Arcade than in Realistic, which is really hilarious.
Goes to show how Gaijin isn’t keen on touching legacy systems until their data (probably revenue) shows them there’s an issue.

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No need for such a hateful response, as I didn’t even talk to you about it, but addressed CRO.

Yeah and you talked to me multiple times with some useless unnecessarily pedantic stuff that adds nothing to the topic

What vehicles would need their reload reversed ?
5s Ace reload becomes 5.7s reload if you have non-Experts.
6s Ace reload becomes 6.9s reload if you have non-Experts.
5.7s is still faster than 6s.

This change would actually hurt the average player and is only beneficial to those that still don’t have any crew levels.

You’re also getting rid of Gaijin’s revenue stream which might not sit well with them.
That said, what you proposed here might hurt more players than help (if you want to do a reversal on the reload speeds) or straight up give a big buff to average and below average crew enjoyers. Balancing who knows how many vehicles with that new, out of the blue buff would be your next problem.

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The thread starts out with:

So far, we have not seen any evidence for this initial statement to be true. All official quotes so far suggest that SL is still the deciding (wholistic) balancing metric. The initial post seems based on knowledge out of the air, “gut feeling” claims. Could we please have some clear proof for this initial statement?

Reload is a balancing metric: Revising the Rate of Fire of the T-64, T-80, Т-72, ZTZ96, ZTZ99 Series and VT4, VT4A1 Tanks - #610
Is it the biggest is subjective. There has been many cases where armor was a balancing issue like oplot’s ERA and the current mess of a BMPT. unique gadgets im not sure what he’s referring to. I know black knight’s APS

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Manual reloads are the biggest balancing metric, because they are (theoretically) the only one thats completely at Gaijins disposal to change. The rest should be based on realistic implementation and is therefore much harder to change on a whim

Yes I agree with you. But just some people will disagree which is why I said its subjective. Gaijin never said it was their main balancing option so

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Give me a screenshot of the RP earned in a single battle with the T58.

Just the T58. No other tank.

Because again, how do you acquire 1 550 000 RP in just 2 days? Did you pile up a ton of 500X boosters?

I don’t have screenshots of a 8.3 tank on hand but with Tiger E I did:

11 minute game
10 kills
1 capture
2478 RP base,
+2478 for skill bonus.

Let’s scale it to T58 (premium account).

2478 / 154 x 202 = 3250 RP
+3250 from being premium tank
+3250 from using premium account
+3250 from skill bonus

That’s 4x3250= 13 000 RP for 11 minutes.

In 1 hour, you get 4x3250/11x60 = 70 909 RP.

In 6 hours, you get 425 454 RP.

In 2 days (12 hours) you get 850 908.

Calculations are easier with sim as there’s an upper limit but let’s assume you constantly had 10 kill games every game and each game was 11 minutes long…

In 12 hours of constant 10 kill games like that… you’re still half-way to the 1 550 000 RP required

Modifications are at least up front and manageable within reasonable time frames. They are also crew slot independent.

Right now, you can take the EXACT SAME VEHICLE with the exact same modifications doing the EXACT same inputs under the EXACT SAME circumstances and… get different results all because of crew skills.

This is completely and utterly absurd.

I mostly consider it from an SBEC/Air perspective, since there it also influences your control inputs. It also leads to ridiculously unrealistic scenarios (my 109F4 can sit on 7G for nearly 20 seconds without a hint of greying out or GLOC. That’s superhuman. Whereas my mid-trained Yak-3 ALMOST GLOCs from a pair of back to back breakturns that were a few seconds each and my Ta 152 GLOCs immediately from a single breakturn.)

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This statement makes no sense.
No proof for the factual claim (that this actually IS the biggest metric), no proof for the theoretical claim.

maybe if the prices are more lowest 25% of the tank no 110%

The armor of a tank is based on its real life value and static. So is its speed, gun, turret traverse and all the other mechanical tidbits.
The Reload speed of a manually loaded tank is entirely up to Gaijin, because it differs a lot in real life as well. The only other things thats partially up to Gaijin is what ammo is accessible.
The theoretical part comes from the fact that no tanks implementation is 100% realistic so far and selected things like turret baskets can be and are also used for balance.

Btw it’s only like 900k for ace in the T58, or was. Could’ve been changed.

Also, considering I was typically 1st or 2nd on my team, and generally was making about 24k+ RP a match at least, I don’t see what’s so hard to understand.

Also, statshark kinda lies lol. It says I played the T58 about a week ago, and I haven’t touched it in roughly a month

And most games I was getting 14-17 kills a match. I was dropping nukes pretty consistently if I recall correctly

Expert/ace i think should only affect repair times and resupply speed if it needs to exist.

Crew skills are stupid and kneecap vehicle performance unless youre a veteran player of years so should also be heavily reformed

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Preach.

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its especially bad now that top tier nato tanks only outreload soviet options with experted crews now.

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I can’t say exactly when he reached an Ace crew, but there is a way to make a good estimate.

If you look at his profile stats for the T58, you’ll see this:

"us_t58": {
  "sessions": 224,
  "spawns": 302,
  "action_SL": 11198277,
  "action_RP": 687576,
  "ground_kills": 964,
  "deaths": 234,
  "victories": 168,
  "air_kills": 4,
  "defeats": 56
},

A few explanations first:
sessions - the number of times he entered a battle with the T58 in his lineup, not necessarily spawning it.
action_SL - the action SL earned with the T58. This is the statistic Gaijin globally uses for vehicle balancing. It’s quite accurate, as nearly all SL earned in battles is action SL.
action_RP - the action RP earned with the T58. Most importantly, this value includes boosters, premium account bonuses, and similar modifiers.

In general, action RP is only a part of the total RP gained in battles. Most RP actually comes from mission RP, but unfortunately Gaijin doesn’t display this data.

To get the total number of battles in which he spawned the vehicle at least once, you need to add victories and defeats. In this case, that gives 224 battles in this tank. It matches the number of sessions, so he spawned the T58 in every battle it was in his lineup.

It’s possible to make a fairly accurate estimate of total RP based on action RP alone. In Ground Arcade, action RP usually accounts for about 35-40% of total RP gains. I don’t play Ground Realistic, but its economy is similar, so the ratio should be roughly the same.

Assuming he survived battles reasonably well, 687,576 action RP represents about 35% of his total RP. That means he earned approximately 1,964,503 total RP on this tank across 224 battles, which averages out to about 8,770 RP per battle.

Based on that, it’s easy to estimate that reaching 1,550,000 RP would have taken around 177 battles. He accumulated that number of battles within a roughly one-month timeframe (September 24 - October 26).

I really don’t think this line of defense makes any sense. The T58 was added to the game in the “Tusk Force” update. In the files from that exact update, dated September 23:

"training_rp_ace": 1550000,

This is another thing that can be checked very easily. For example, you played the T58 in this battle on December 22:
https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/422516746320029711

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Repair times are also really important for gameplay.

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far less than the reload rate. Shooting first is very important but being able to shoot again first is just as valuable.

Being able to repair a track or engine doesnt stop you shooting back, and repair races are a real rush when yours and your foes barrels are taken out

Depends on the situation really.

Also situational.
I’ve died too many times from simply not being able to repair in time, which is something that wouldn’t happen if I had Aces.