A ´Solomonic´ solution to the subtree controversy

Game Discussion General Discussion
,
1

It’s undeniable that a controversy has emerged in the community in recent days, raising several dilemmas. Primarily, there is a **contradiction between the interests of the game —and, by extension, the developers— and certain sensitivities within parts of the community.

On one hand, the game needs to continue incorporating new vehicles; that is one of the main ways it stays relevant and attracts new players. This is unavoidable, and furthermore, there are fewer and fewer vehicles left to add to the existing tech trees. Therefore, expanding the list of nations is inevitable, and it’s also inevitable that many will be added in subtree format.

The problem that can hurt sensitivities has a historical root: relations between nations change over time; yesterday’s enemies can be great allies today and vice versa. Therefore, a subtree should not merely be an extra element within a single larger tech tree; doing so creates a misrepresentation of history and/or the present, which is the source of the community’s outrage when they see vehicle X in tech tree Y.

Guiding ourselves by the current path, there are only two alternatives:

  1. Add an entire subtree to a single tech tree, enduring the—more or less justified—indignation of a segment of the community.
  2. Do not add the subtree, limiting the number of vehicles that can be added to the game over time, and consequently shortening its lifespan.

How can we overcome this situation? I propose a “Solomonic solution”: make subtrees accessible from more than one tech tree. This way, we would better represent the fact that subtrees represent independent nations and the changing nature of their relationships with others over time.

For example, the Thai subtree should be accessible from both the Japanese and Chinese tech trees, and the subtree in question could then feature all the vehicles currently used by the Thai armed forces. This same criterion can be adopted in the future, and the following examples come to mind (which may or may not be perfectly correct; I don’t intend to offend anyone’s sensibilities with this post):

Singapor, accessible from Israel and perhaps also China.
Argentina, accessible from Germany and Israel (the entire TAM-2 program is being carried out by Elbit).
Ukraine, accessible from the US and USSR/Russia, etc.

2 Likes
2

I think the Chinese are offended by the idea of Japanese players being able to access Chinese vehicles in any fashion at all, so they would still be angry at your solution.

Their problem isn’t that China doesn’t have access to that VT-4, since it was to be a Premium anyway and China already has 2 VT-4s; their problem is, “RAAAA, Japanese players can put Chinese tank on their lineup!”

3 Likes
3

would be easier if they just carved every country up into where their stuff will go already to just bury the hatchet.

Go by union/empires first and then by geopolitical, that way it ensures that nations like canada just as an example isnt claimed by three nations and we dont get idiotic moves like singapore to china but to japan instead

4

The most populace tech tree in the game: USA, cannot fill its ranks.
Each rank has 81 vehicle slots with foldering 3 vehicles, 108 with 4 foldered vehicles.
3 rows, 5 columns.

There are 8 ranks giving 648 - 864 vehicle slots per tech tree.

The base limit of vehicles in the rank system as it stands now is just shy of 13,000 vehicles for just air and ground.
The top collector achievement is 2000… the game’s rank system is no where near as limiting as it’s portrayed.

USA currently has less than 100 vehicles in its ground tree. Sub-trees added thus far couldn’t even add 100 vehicles.

So no, sub trees as they stand now are not limited in number of additions because the countries physically haven’t created enough vehicles IRL to get anywhere close to the 3 row, 5 column, 3 foldered vehicle limit set in-game.

The only true way to “fix” this is to abandon nation vs nation matchmaking entirely and let people mix-match lineups; and that’s not something I personally support.
I can imagine an all T-72M/A lineup because of that.

5

You can never please everybody, but at least we would be pleasing some more.

6

Well my idea also means more added value for more existing tech trees since the sub trees would be more spread than using them just as an extension of a single nation. Of course, which subtrees should be accesible from which tech trees is an open question, I was just listing examples I could think of.

7

Subtrees are just so difficult in general. I feel that this is a somewhat good idea, but still just wouldn’t work.

The nation folder idea I see a lot seems to be a great option, but I doubt gaijin would ever do that.

In reality we are just going to have to wait for all this Chinese stuff to blow over. I chatted with the angry Chinese mains last night, they really just seem entitled and think all their vehicles suck when they don’t.

1 Like
8

Exactly

1 Like
9

This is an interesting proposal though how would this work on the UI?

10

I would let Gaijin figure out that part. Surely they can.

11

As if the “Japanese Player” can’t play/use the Chinese TT?

But yeah, its all just juvenile nationalism.

12

I just hate subtrees in general. It’s especially annoying in sim battles.

13

Granted I am not that much familiar with the sim rotations (yet), but I can already see once I get to around to play sim, I will be flying out the thai Gripen and getting shot down by the thai gripen. Or I will be driving out the thai oplot, and getting shot by thai oplot.

I dont think issue with this one is going to be solved by ukraine going, albeit not exclusively, to soviet TT ;)

tl;dr Im not entirely sure your solution deserves to be callled “solomonic” since as far as i know, it creates entirely new set of issues with sim which in turn would need further fixing - solomonic solution wouldnt lead to that ;)

14

Point of a subtree is filling the gaps in a specific tech tree. China already has more than enough vehicles to do so while Japan is clearly lacking on it’s own hence the Thailand taking a branch in Japanese tech tree.

I simply do not see any point in making these subtrees accessable through different tech trees other than trying to please some petulant man-children who is mad over some pixels.

15

Except for Brit mains most don’t have a problem with subtrees not coming to their nation. Usually, it’s a history of horrible oppression and atrocities. So this does nothing to solve the issue.

16

thats basically warthunder mobile. Personally I think it will make the game environment extremely unfriendly to new players since they have to face the best vehicles from every nation. The Oerlikon SPAAs is a perfect example. Who wants to die three times to kill one SPAA, later to find out they just spawned in another one without using a backup?