The problem of MiG-21M is russia didn’t use that because it was just export model of MiG-21S with internal guns and bad radar.
They mostly used MiG-21SM but, it is almost same as MiG-21MF so, it would be pointless to add in the game.
it has 4 20G missiles, Very similar guns, and its a lot faster. In the objective view, it would be much better than the F-5C would be without flares. Pretty sure the only thing the F-5C has is its heat signature and turn time. I think you also need to realize the F-1 isn’t really good.
Heat is “annoying”, something we’ll all agree on.
And it’s not as if one flare from any of the other 10.3s and 10.7s won’t decoy the same exact missiles except 9Ls and maybe the odd 9G.
Im not sure what you’re trying to say here, but I think the F-5C is fine with flares, and they definitely shouldn’t be removed from it. Leaving it at 10.3 with way worse stuff compared to the vehicles around it would be flat out stupid. Most missiles will still track the F-5C’s heat signature without flares.
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Actually no…
Defending against a missile in the sea harrier is very difficult in comparison. 1 tap flares. Doesn’t always work. Usually it’s multiple flares and a jink to defeat the missile.
Meanwhile I’ve seen an F5E 1 flare an Aim-9M in rear aspect
Yeah, it’s still a MiG-21, but I forgot that I had posted my suggestion for implementing an aircraft that could be good counterpart to the F-5C (or F 5E, depending on loadout).
It has worse flight models from MiG-21MF/SMT but, should be fine because it has x2 better missiles and CMs.
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I think that’s something unique about the Harriers rather than F-5 having something special, since Harrier runs hotter from my experience than all AB jets at the same BRs according to missile retention.
That is kinda what I’ve been saying. Why? How is the reheat plume colder than the harrier. It doesn’t make any sense
Cool, it’s also about 25% as effective as the F-5C. Can you GUESS why?
1- It could be incorrect.
2- 4 exhaust locations increasing the heat plume size.
2a- Refer to 1 about both 2 and something could be incorrect since wings are supposed to block the 2 forward exhausts.
It probably is wrong. Do you know what would probably be needed to fix it though…
A total ground up overhaul of how IR signatures are modeled in game.
But none the less. A jet, flying on reheat in a straight line. should not be able to defeat an Aim-9L with 2 flare in rear aspect. Something is fundamentally wrong that the F5s (and many others) can.
My suspicion is that reheat plumes are simply not hot enough or not modeled at all
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No.
I mean R60s are still hard to dodge if you don’t have flares/rockets.
You can outrun against R60s if you fly fast but, in most cases, your plane is not dogfighter like starfighters.
The only things that can works as legitimate counterparts to the F5C are dogfighters with CM and early missiles.
You know what’s funny?
The last time an R-60 non-M was launched on me I dodged it in my F-104A/C… last year.
The last time I died to a Mig-21 non-Bis, they fired an R-3R at me.
Granted, I haven’t played the 10.3 bracket in over a month now due to ground preference and the stuff I want to play being non-spaded with nothing to research [F-4F].
“The art of not being launched on by rear-aspect missiles.”
A required art when you don’t have flares.
because it doesn’t have flares! thats why the F-5C needs flares
then it should be uptiered and given 9Js
No… Not needed, and I want F-5Cs to continue going into my matches. They think they’re immortal when they’re in their inferior aircraft.
It’s simply either you were flying pretty fast in an F-104A/C or the R-60 was in bad shape when it was launched.
Most of the deaths I’ve had in 10.3 uptier when I play F-104As were caused by R-60s fired from MiG-21MF/SMTs.
The R-60 is still the “I win” button for jets without flares even after the drag nerf, and if a MiG flying at about the same speed as you gets fired R-60, it is super hard to dodge.
Positioning to prevent missiles from being launched is not the point of this discussion.
I think the AJ37 is a better aircraft than the F-5C for the meta, although the guns are harder to aim than the F-5C’s. The AJS37 is also not a bad contender to the F-5E, as it can carry 2x Aim-9Ls, and 2x Aim-9Js, while the F-5E only carries 2x Aim-9Js. Missiles aren’t everything, but the 2 extra missiles (that so happen to be Aim-9Ls) is pretty good. The AJS37 flight model isn’t too bad, although it can be out-rated by the F-5E. It only beats the F-5E in a dogfight if the F-5E goes slow, due to the AJS37’s great AOA performance. However, if you keep your speed, I don’t see why it wouldn’t perform very well at 10.7 in the ‘furball’ meta.
I always forget it exists. I still think F-5C is 2nd and the 21s are 3rd
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Pretty much 11.0 Viggen flight performance at a lower BR just because it has to carry gun + flare pods, as well as not having skyflashes.