~7.7 heavy tanks desperately need a reload buff

[O_HOgameplay]

@AverageWehraboo

Accusing me of only looking at statcards then stating this:

And it is especially funny when you say this:

@AverageWehraboo

The spall shield behind the mantlet stops the entire round 90% of the time. Killing or even taking out the breach isn’t possible with any round except for the 128mm full caliber shell with a lucky shot.

That is why you should not trust protection analysis in terms of overpressures, like this.
Anyway, here is a much weaker shell in every aspect, tahn the 128mm:

@AverageWehraboo

You can’t just change to HE when you have a 20s+ reload while your enemy can pen you anywhere and is stabilized much less at range

You don’t need a 122mm gun. Even the US 90mm has enough HE pen to overpressure it:

The US 90mm M71 shell has 1210g, so any HE shell over that calibre will happily overpressure the tank. Same shell is used in the Char 25t, that has 4s reload.
Somua SM has also a 4s reload, but it has HE shell with more TNT in it, so it can impact even further and still get the kill.
Same happens if these shells hit the cupola, since there are hatches right under and in front of it.
With HE shells that have ~29-30mm pen, just shoot the armor above the gun for a nice overpressure

@AverageWehraboo

The only weakspot is the LFP the UFP equally as effective as the the one on the T32E1 or Tiger 2

Yes, and everybody will shoot the LFP, which is paper, does not have a giant transmission behind it (unlike on the Tiger 2, which also has good armor there to begin with), or have highly angled plates, where only the 2 edges are weak (the middle part even bounces an IS-7), with more crew, and a better gun. It is even better on the E1 variant btw…

@AverageWehraboo

It’s still possible to disable or kill any tank frontally if you shoot the breach or the ammo. If you aim for dead space of course you won’t hit anything. If he was in any other 7.7 heavy he’d be even worse of than in the Conqueror.

Do you have any actual evidence, or you just say something that fits your narrative?
His YT channel would disagree:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWth3hNOBQ0
https://youtu.be/c6GzS8DS9SU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnKx-nP4rYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-I7c2HdbNM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENScdmBdKtk

@AverageWehraboo

Almost impossible to pull of in a live game even with the angle mods of the BR-471B. With any other shell you shouldn’t even try to hit that.

Both the 100mm and 122mm soviet B rounds can pen it.

[O_HOgameplay]

@AverageWehraboo

It’s frontally invulnerable to anything smaller than the long 88 or the 122mm (sometimes the 85mm)

@AverageWehraboo

Jumbo 76 vs Tiger 1 or T-34-85 is as unfair as it gets and no the MG is not a reliable weakspot at all.

You just need some better aiming skills. The MG port is reliable if you get used to it. YOu just need practice. The cupola and turret ring are weak spots too. Many Jumbo players also overangle, and the side is horribly weak, with ammo right behind it.

@AverageWehraboo

They shouldn’t be in the game with access to HEAT.

They had IRL. HEAT at that BR is one of the worse shells.

@AverageWehraboo

All of these tanks are trash and if you’re unable to deal with them you’re a bad player I’m sorry.

And it does not change the fact that they LOLpen it everywhere.

@AverageWehraboo

Learn to deal with casemates.

Which again does not change the fact that the Jagdpenther LOLpens it, while you need a somewhat lucky shot at the cupola, which many times leaves both the driver and gunner alive with calibres such as the US 76mm.

@AverageWehraboo

KT can be a problem but both have a worse reload, are less mobile and don’t feature a stabilizer.

They have comparable mobility.

@AverageWehraboo

Trying to challenge a KT head on with this tank is like attacking a Jumbo in a frontal assault with a Tiger 1.

Going against a Jumbo with Tiger is easy if you know what you are doing. It is not that easy to pull it off with a 76mm Jumbo against a Tiger 2. Doable, but not at all with the same success.

@AverageWehraboo

Yes there should be less HEAT and HE tanks at that BR but that doesn’t mean they should go lower. Instead the HEAT/HE tanks should move up. At 7.3

HE/HEAT slingers are among the worst vehicles, especially the HEAT users. You seriously suggest that Ikv 103 and alike should move to 7.3? Are you out of your mind?

@AverageWehraboo

That’s not true anything that gets less than 320mm HEAT can’t pass through the spall shield reliably.

He is talking about the breech. You also likely using protection analysis again, which is not good for such things.

@Flak_Dancer

Meanwhile the Maus/Jagdtiger with much higher space for work, 2 loaders and shell/proppellant in the same place load slower…

The shells are right next to the loader in the IS-6:

Spoiler

They are further away in the Maus:

Spoiler

The second loader also likely only loads the 75mm, so the Maus/E-100 likely has 1 loader too (for the 128mm).
They are also ~3km heavier than the soviet 122mm, and that’s just the projectiles, not even talking about the propellant.

@Aegis270

Unless you hit ammo directly, it’s entirely possible to not cripple a tank you’re firing at.

It isn’t even guaranteed in that case.

@Flak_Dancer

so the second loader can assist the main gun

The commander is in the way.

@AverageWehraboo

T26E1-1

It has a long as hell single piece ammo, that made the reloadin a nightmare. In game it should have a faster reload, but that would not be realistic.

@AverageWehraboo

or all IS-2s

They had 2-3 ROF in reality, so in WT we even have the higher end of the possible ROF.

[AverageWehraboo]

That is why you should not trust protection analysis in terms of overpressures, like this.
Anyway, here is a much weaker shell in every aspect, tahn the 128mm:

Pixel hunting with arcade aiming

You don’t need a 122mm gun. Even the US 90mm has enough HE pen to overpressure it:
The US 90mm M71 shell has 1210g, so any HE shell over that calibre will happily overpressure the tank.
Same shell is used in the Char 25t, that has 4s reload.
Somua SM has also a 4s reload, but it has HE shell with more TNT in it, so it can impact even further and still get the kill.
Same happens if these shells hit the cupola, since there are hatches right under and in front of it.
With HE shells that have ~29-30mm pen, just shoot the armor above the gun for a nice overpressure

Irrelevant. You won’t get the second shot on someone with a full stab and a shorter reload.

Yes, and everybody will shoot the LFP, which is paper

Good luck doing that when the Conqueror is hull down.

Both the 100mm and 122mm soviet B rounds can pen it.

You never tried that in a real match.

And it does not change the fact that they LOLpen it everywhere.

They suck in every aspect except their gun so the Jumbo has more than enough ways of dealing with them. None of the tanks in the picture can reliably pen a Jumbo at any range over 100m. Stuff like the Ikv 103 can pen it too yet I was talking about actual tank guns you will encounter not TDs or tanks like the ARL44.

You just need some better aiming skills. The MG port is reliable if you get used to it. YOu just need practice. The cupola and turret ring are weak spots too.

Actually funny. The Jumbo 76 is much more forgiving and easier to use than the Tiger 1 or T-34.

Which again does not change the fact that the Jagdpenther LOLpens it, while you need a somewhat lucky shot at the cupola, which many times leaves both the driver and gunner alive with calibres such as the US 76mm.

The Jagdpanther doesn’t even have a cupola and the MG port is so much easier to hit than the one on a Jumbo or KT.

They have comparable mobility.

That’s just a lie the Jumbo has far better acceleration and turning ability.

Going against a Jumbo with Tiger is easy if you know what you are doing. It is not that easy to pull it off with a 76mm Jumbo against a Tiger 2. Doable, but not at all with the same success.

Both are unfair and one tank has the upper hand.

HE/HEAT slingers are among the worst vehicles, especially the HEAT users. You seriously suggest that Ikv 103 and alike should move to 7.3? Are you out of your mind?

Are you serious? Where did I say the Ikv 103 should go to 7.3? The Ikv and the Jagdpanzer 4-5 are casemates and easy to deal with. Those are balanced HEAT tanks. On the other hand vehicles like the Ikv91, M50, Fiat 6614 are way too low and outperform similar BR tanks.

7.3 was mentioned when talking about the T32 and IS-3. I don’t know if you’re lying on purpose or just misread that.

You left out the rest of the sentence.

He is talking about the breech. You also likely using protection analysis again, which is not good for such things.

Happened multiple times in a live game.

[AverageWehraboo]

It isn’t even guaranteed in that case.

Ammo not exploding happens to all rounds in the game.

It has a long as hell single piece ammo, that made the reloadin a nightmare. In game it should have a faster reload, but that would not be realistic.

They had 2-3 ROF in reality, so in WT we even have the higher end of the possible ROF.

Realism doesn’t matter when it’s about balance.

[AverageWehraboo]

Do you have any actual evidence, or you just say something that fits your narrative?
His YT channel would disagree:

Don’t take these videos too serious he comes up with a new best or worst tank every other week.

The IS-6 is better in angle pen, post pen, side armor and is slightly faster. Everything else that matters is worse than on the T32E1 yet one “isn’t too bad” and the other one is “the saddest heavy tank”. At the time of the IS-6 video it was still 7.3 so that would explain why he only had downtiers in the IS-6 and mostly uptiers in the T32. Of course the IS-6 does better in a 7.7 game than the T32 does in a 8.7 game.

In the very video you listed to support your argument you can even see him eat a 600mm pen atgm to the face with it doing 0 damage.

Nothing happens because he’s shooting empty space like I said.

Ammo explodes with the first shot:

With any other 7.7 you would have 0 chance of ever killing or disabling a Strv103 frontally.

Seems like 90% of the time when he actually aims it’s a 1 shot.

[AverageWehraboo]

No offense but you do realize this thread is mainly for Realistic Battles? It seems like you’re arguing from an Arcade standpoint because you never played any 7.7 RB match.

[Miragen]

And it still has broken front armor that is 70mm to pen, 7.7 heavy with Panzer IV armor levels… I reported this in 2018 so surely any day now.

I remember shooting an R3 with thing and it yellowed a single crew member and then it just killed me from the side because it has useless armor everywhere else.

[MiseryIndex556-psn]

Forcing the T32E1 to play as a medium when the M47 and M48 are significantly better mediums isn’t a justification for keeping it at 7.7.

The T32 trades side armor for mobility. The IS3 and IS4M are much tougher to kill from the sides. They get their various APHE rounds and the massively OP APHEBC slope modifiers.

[AverageWehraboo]

You USA mains are all the same you only play 1 nation a lot and never consider any other nation.

Forcing the T32E1 to play as a medium when the M47 and M48 are significantly better mediums isn’t a justification for keeping it at 7.7.

You can’t read. The T32E1 CAN play like a medium in uptiers while the IS-3, IS-4M and Maus CAN’T play like mediums and are completely useless in uptiers. That doesn’t mean the T32E1 should play like a medium all the time. It can (like the other 7.7s) sometimes play like a heavy in downtiers.

The T32 trades side armor for mobility.

The IS-3 and IS-4M while having less acceleration are actually faster but they get much worse reloads, worse shells if you consider volumetric, less than half the turret traverse, worse gun handling overall, worse velocity on their shells and the biggest downside is the -3° gun depression instead of -10°.

OP APHEBC slope modifiers

These shells get caught on the most random object because of their diameter but russian bias amiright.

The IS3 and IS4M are much tougher to kill from the sides.

Your only valid point.

[AverageWehraboo]

7.7 heavy with Panzer IV armor levels

The Conqueror has Panzer 4 levels of armor? What?

I remember shooting an R3 with thing and it yellowed a single crew member

That happens to other rounds aswell. It’s not exclusive to APDS or the Conqueror.

[Miragen]

The Conqueror has Panzer 4 levels of armor? What?

Did you read half my comment or something? 70mm of frontal armor weakspot.

Actually less armor than a Panzer IV.

That happens to other rounds aswell. It’s not exclusive to APDS or the Conqueror.

Those other rounds are not 120mm APDS with a 20 second reload.

[AverageWehraboo]

Actually less armor than a Panzer IV.

You can’t make this up lmao.

Those other rounds are not 120mm APDS with a 20 second reload.

That’s right the other rounds are something like 122mm APCBC with a 27 second reload.

[FlipAllTheTables]

@Miragen

Did you read half my comment or something? 70mm of frontal armor weakspot.

Except it’s 76 mm, and it’s angled at 44°, making it far more effective than a 80 mm plate at 12°.

Still not nearly strong enough to stop tank cannons at that BR, but much stronger than the armor of even the Pz.IV H with additional track armor.

[Miragen]

You can’t make this up lmao.

You’re right, I don’t need to make it up when it’s factually true,

[_Zekken]

@AverageWehraboo

The Conqueror has Panzer 4 levels of armor? What?

Flakpanzer 341 full penned my conquerers turret face with his AP round yesterday, and exploded and killed all my crew. 49mm of pen against the literal strongest part of the conquerers turret btw.

@AverageWehraboo

That happens to other rounds aswell. It’s not exclusive to APDS or the Conqueror.

Also yesterday, sent my 120mm APDS round straight through the chest of a DF105s gunner (+some spall) and didnt even turn him yellow lol. Zero damage whatsoever done with that round through the center front of his tank.

You can aim properly all you like with APDS, its so unreliable that you cant help but laugh at the absurdity, plus the shell shatter mechanic being incredibly unpredictable.

At least the russian 122s immediately delete whatever they penetrate.

[AverageWehraboo]

Next time be a bit less obvious with these troll posts.

[Miragen]

Where am I trolling?

[AverageWehraboo]

Move your mouse by 1 pixel.

[AverageWehraboo]

So True! It’s totally only the Conqueror that suffers! Russian bias 122mm op!

[Miragen]

That’s called missing your shot, weakspots don’t cease to exist just because you’re not aiming at them.

Jumbo no longer has a frontal weakspot because I aimed next to it.