What if rather than him struggling against the F8F, it’s him killing everyone in the F8F?
I really don’t have trouble killing them, which honestly just shows American players are literally the worse in game as the vehicle can literally be untouchable if played correctly, I mean it’s literally the faster thing around that br with still very good maneuverability, honestly I don’t know how he think one of the best 6.3s would somehow be terrible at 4.7 like, I’ll smoke what he is lol. I just realized what you said and no I don’t play the 4.7 version because I don’t like to play op stuff (I barely play p51h5 or yak3u despite loving the series) I do however love the 6.3 version
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.50cals are not underperforming there’s a reason literally everyone besides the us used 20mm, .50cal trades raw damage for tigger time and velocity, you can spray and hit shots you wouldn’t want to waste 20mm on at much higher ranges and are we just going pretend it’s not common for a single 12.7 to graze a plane and burn it down?
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First, 50cals are not “trades raw damage for trigger time” , the US basically overload the gun with ammunition and six 50cals with 2400rds would cost 450kg, in contrast japanese four 20mm with 800rds only costs 350kg, and the latter would also feature a long trigger time. While the one-second-burst-mass from 6x50cals at least equal to two or more 20mm.
Sure 20mm should perform better than the 50cals, but not by that much. If you need 200 rds on target to kill a fighter with 50cals and only 1-2 rds with 20mm, the difference is so massive that any “trigger time” advantage from 50cals just becomes a vain in comparison with the unreal efficiency of 20mm.
In real history we see lots of S/E fighters absorbs a burst of 20mm, badly shot up but still in one piece and safely go home. Which is not a case in current game as 20mm works like 30mm in real life.
This also leads to a problem for fighters with 3 or more guns, as back then in 201x warthunder, 4 guns figther has a markable value for having a good efficiency, while a single 20mm need to carefully line up shots for the cockpit. In current game, a single 20mm makes the job done is also unfair towards aircrafts that trades performance for more guns.
Not to advocate the topic that 50cals “deserve a buff”, but rather “20mm’s deserve a nerf”.
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I too could kill everyone of they were worse than me. The insanity of calling a plane too strong when no1 who plays it even has above average stats is staggering.
Nope, I really don’t know why you bothered mentioning the weight of the guns, but ofc they weigh more you’re bringing more ammo for more total guns, I’ll repeat myself with the American set up you are able to make critical hits at also twice the range as 20mm due to the much higher muzzle velocity, you also like I said have a much higher trigger time than 20mm due to the ammo depth.
And about Japanese 20mm, they only have such trigger time due to a significantly lower fire rate, 750 on m2 vs 590 on type 2, and m2 has over 150-200m/s higher muzzle velocity.
On the over performance I’ll be willing to concede that certain 20mm over perform in damage like shvak with only 6.36g of he (8.62 on stealth) or even the type 2 with only 6.05g (but 11.98 on stealth which is respectable). m3 and Hispanos all have around or exceeding 10g while mg151/20 have a whopping 29.76g which would cripple or destroy any fighter that got a bust from 1 not to mention 3 which many aircraft carry, the trade off is about half the engagement range as the shells have a much lower velocity and lose it much faster.
A single burst from 6 m2 12.7s is more than enough to completely cripple an aircraft and is very likely to catch it on fire as well as having the ability to catch a plane on fire with a single grazing hit they shouldn’t have the same ability to destroy or do more damage than mg151/20 which until the last major update was true.
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Logically how do you rationalize a plane that is good at 6.3 would be bad at 4.7 just because you switch the 20mm with 12.7s, I’m genuinely curious.
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Losing velocity over the range is a characteristic that mostly apply for guns like MG151, even the shvak has somewhat decent retention on shell velocity and the only disadvantage would be the ammo count for the shvak. 20mm like hispano and ANM2/M3 are more than often to make a good long range shot from 8-900m, even the Japanese Type992 would be enough to make a good hit from long range.
All those 20mm while making long range kills, only need 1-2 rounds landing on target, while in the case of 50cals, you would often obtain “hits” after “hits”, unless you got extremely lucky on someone who’s not willing to upgrade the pilot’s skill on HP or ignite some unlucky guys whose gas tank are not protected and was assigned with a decent chance to catch afire ( common fuel tanks seen on US/UK and Japanese planes, Soviets got inert system and Germans got armor plates). Which makes the 50cals give more effect psychologically than physically, which is to force someone to jink.
And if the guy is jinking and still pulls away from you, 50cals generally has little effect. But if you got 20mm and lands even a single shot on the jinking guy, he is most likely done for.
Also, thinks about it, you are packing 450kg of armaments and when you are mixing up with enemy and desperately lands a burst of 50cals on the enemy, most of time it does no effect, and some guy who is only carrying 70kg of armaments simply out-guns you and shreds you into pieces by just 1-2 hits just makes the game unfair and unrealistic.
I currently prefer not to fly planes with 20mm, since the kill that I obtain does not contain any process of tiring up airframes, what I only got were snap shot and the targets instantly disintegrates, with no joy.
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again certain 20mm do over performance for their explosive mass such as those two but you’re crazy if you think you’re just going to shrug off 40g or even almost 60g of explosive mass on a fighter sized airframe, every single time it will be obliterated.
No, its not. Even the 20mm MG151/20 Mine Shell does not shred a S/E into pieces in one short burst. Not even against Soviets with composite woods that are vulnerable to blast damage. Most of damage came from fragments that cuts off controls, pipes and wound pilots.
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No one is saying it’s bad
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Going from 4x 20mm to 4x .50cal is an insane glow down
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Prop plane performance doesn’t change very radically between 4.7 and 6.3, aside from the P-51H-5
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The F8F-1 is not hard to fight at its BR. Pretty much every 4.7 can either outrun (Fw 190 D-9, Yak-3) or outturn (Spitfire, Yak-3) the F8F-1.
It’s a very middle of the road kinda plane, so you always have a viable defensive option when fighting it.
Just to put into perspective how massive of a loss going from .50cala to 20mms is, the F4U-1A gets a 2.0 BR increase when given 20mms.
you’re showing a bunch of misses one of them doesn’t even look like it hit and that p51 and la5 were both literally shot down though? like you’re not proving your point here bro.
Irl WW2 had A LOT of misses unlike your ability to pinpoint aim in warthunder that is the reason for the discrepancy in real life.
lol, no that shows how bad Americans players are, I’ll let
speak for itself as that’s another hilarious statement keep it coming
Yet again, noob, it’s literally more maneuverable than the dora, and it’s literally way faster than any of those aircraft.
also for example, Italian go from 7.7s MACHINE GUNS to mg151/20s and guess what? it’s only a 1.0 br difference!
Just stop digging the hole bro
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I’m not sure why you keep tryna dogfight F8F-1s whilst in the Fw 190 D-9. I shouldn’t have to be the one to tell you this, but that’s a bad idea. What makes the D-9 good is its speed, not its turning.
You’re struggling to fight a plane that isn’t even in the top 5 for its br. I think you’re the one who’s bad.
You can literally see the flashes from shells exploding. Well, you can’t, most people can.
Think of it, if all those hits happens in War Thunder instead of real life, what will happen? In the first strike/puff you will see a big wing and tail cut off.
I would say currently 20mm is like 3-400% greater than in real history. The gun damage back in 2018-20 and late 2023 were more like what should have in real life.
You would need 30mm Mine Shell to achieve what you will see in the game:
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that’s a spitfire that was shot down yet again, and no we wouldn’t need that as the internal after an mg151 would literally be obliterated and in warthunder it’s very easy to concentrate fire unlike irl, again there’s a reason the us shifted to 20mm and the navy even faster. Like I said though shvaks and type 99 2 are over performing giving their explosive mass
Again I fly Sim battles and the plane is not that stable, yet again I often one-shot disintegrate targets in fw190 and I don’t think it is accurate. Even with mouse aiming it’s not an excuse to say your are concentrating fire power, and one-hit-wing-off doesn’t need much “concentration”.
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far more stable than in real life lmao, dude there’s no way you’re equating Sim to reality war thunder Sim.
If you read the flight test report and fly other sim battle games you will find the War Thunder models the plane in a more destabilized way. If you drop flaps on fw190 you plane will sway, goes up and down that never getting damped in 1-2 cycles in which it should have been damped IRL. When fly BF-109 I can simply pull an instant AoA to shot high deflections and with one hit of mg151 I will expect the target reappear with a single wing. It is a consensus in most Sim players that 20mm in WT currently works as 30mm.
I would suggest you learn more either by playing sim or read historical encounter report to know what is expected to happen in aerial combat. And your wording looks like you are angered from no reason and by calling others “noob” in a normal discussion I would expect you getting flagged by one of the moderator.
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I mean if you’re going to be objectively, not subjectively, he is factually incorrect in his statement as it is not a matter of opinion, I will call him a noob idc lol
War thunder is not realistic to real life bro that’s frankly an insane argument.
And I do actually know history which is why I know the us was forced to use 12.7s due to the continued failures of the American hispano copy, in war thunder certain 20mm are over performing and but not mg151s your proof is to post planes that were literally shot down or missed and claim they lack damage so maybe you should actually know what you’re posting lol.