When your .50cals with 0 TNT equivalent do the same thing as his 30mm you make a song and dance about it.
Now when multiple 30mms with over 100g of TNT do literally nothing at point blank range you somehow have a logical conclusion for it lol.
The fragments of his rounds should also spread to the wings, given how the 30mm Mineshells are supposed to work in the game.
It’s easier for you to just admit that you want your US .50cals to have 20mm damage on top of everything they already have.
You even managed to say that Mg151(easily the worst 20mm in the game right now) is massively overperforming, just shows how clueless or bias you are.
Since you hardly play anything other than US, looks like that anything that kills you is overperforming and your guns are the only one lacking in damage.
The highly unlikely to occur that happens pretty much every match:
I just took my G.91 for some flights. I even dropped 2 guns. It makes the plane armed with only 2 12.7mm M3 which has approximately same mass per second with 3 M2, half of the firepower US props normally carry.
Or Bf109F4 Air targets AND a Mustang MkIa with presumably air targets (i’m stupid and assigned it spitfire. I blame the Tempest I saw earlier in that match):
That wingtip damage did not noticably affect my handling either - I noticed it when i was preparing to land! (hence screenshot). Ripping my flaps did much more to make me suffer.
You vomited out a bunch of damage.
This guy wasn’t going to get away from you.
The same with your F3H video. You shot him and he suddenly… Stayed still and report of tail damage? In fact, why do you keep on not showing the aircraft damage :0
Funny part is, your round hit the engine. The .50 would’ve been stopped by the engine too. Almost like having a giant long chunk of steel in the back makes these aircraft pretty durable no matter who shoots them.
EVERY. Cannon. EVERY. Cannon. is overperforming. The MG151 is overperforming. So is the Hispano, the Shvak, Type-99, Ho-5.
They ALL are. Including any country that has ‘’‘‘HE’’’ filler in their machine guns. The only thing the U.S. .50s are wrong on are the accuracy and ballistics (Technically every gun in the game is wrong on these parts), and the sudden ‘damage’ to the fuselage superstructure, when in reality, it should be damaging components on the inside. But as gaijin has shown:
They’re more focused on tanks instead of aircraft.
No. You’re putting words in my mouth. I have repeatedly said, that .50s shouldn’t hit like 20mm cannons. That includes other countries .50s. But currently. We’re having it where Russian and Japanese .50s are outright better than U.S. .50s.
Here’s What I said.
I wish to balance off of pure realism. Where each aircraft has multiple modules to damage, airframe durability should vary wildly with overbuilt aircraft being able to tank the historical damage they were known for. Snap-city shouldn’t be the norm.
But as it stands. Gaijin has decided to balance off of gameplay, therefore, they made even other countries .50s have explosive damage nearly on par with 20mm cannon rounds.
This should NOT be a thing that’s possible.
Fires. One of the main ways to actually kill prop planes for U.S. .50s
I catch him on fire. He survives.
I catch him on fire TWICE and he survives. The only reason he goes down is because he runs out of fuel.
I get literally raked through by a P-47. I survive. Why? Because he didn’t touch anything important.
Here’s an Fw-190 where I hit his wing in PERFECT convergence.
He flies through.
I pull under, taking a risk and just launching rounds at this dude. I rake through this dude ENTIRELY with .50s in my P-47. Literally coating his whole fuselage. His internals somehow matrix dodged everything. And because I damaged his fuselage only, he was a bit draggier.
He proceeds to fly on, and hunt down my P-51 ally and kill him, and only loses when attacked by an I-185. I didn’t get the kill
I’m not asking for .50s to receive a huge stat buff. I’m not asking for a stat buff at all.
All I want. Is just a belt. With more incendiary. That’s all. That’s literally it.
That’s it.
If there’s more incendiary, there will be more consistent damage across the whole area of the aircraft because you have more incendiary coverage instead of just all API or APIT.
You take my original statements, morph them, and pretend I’m arguing something I’m not.
Well, because it is kinda pointless since it exactly shows what I said.
Not even the slightest yellow on his engine after 5 damn hits. With his engine and half of the elevator intact, he would have returned to his base if I didn’t break his wing with the final shot. If I were using 12.7mm, he would have become a burning fireball with dead engine long ago :)
lol wut
Yeah, stopped after instantly killing the engine with just 12~30 rounds :)
Meanwhile :
The US Army recorded that a 12.7mm round has basically no possibility of causing an ‘A’ kill, which is the most common shape of death in this game, against a P-47 by causing an engine failure even when it’s shot from the front below. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I’m 99% sure that round got gaijined. As I’ve shown Ho-103 HE doing more damage. I’m sure you wouldn’t mind showing subsequent shots right? You’re surely not using an exceptional to be dishonest. Right?
Even with that gaijined spread you got. That’s extending out way farther than what the mineshell should be doing.
Looks like a synchronisation issue.
Basically the round connected and exploded almost immediatly after traveling another 10cm but the game registrated the position of the Sea Hawk and the shell at different places.
In the same way you can be hit by shells that came no where close to you on your end.
So the shell exploded at some distance away from the plane and only causes light damaged.
Obliterate? Before I broke his wing, only his wingroots, tail and fuselage were damaged. This game doesn’t count such damage as a ‘critical’ or ‘severe’ one. He can just roll and pitch just fine with higher drag in this game while IRL the plane should have lost its airworthiness long ago because of structural failure.
And that plane in the photo crash landed in a ‘B’ kill, didn’t it?
@KillaKiwi expained the possible reason. I think it is a plausible reason on that one, but even if that’s the case, 12.7mm doesn’t have to suffer such phenomenon since it does all damage in direct contact. Furthermore, it still does not explain the reason of the shell getting extremely wonky when it hits the engine while 12.7mm is literally working like a jackhammer and a flamethrower combined.
Somehow I don’t see any of your comment on the current 12.7mm in this game already performing far more powerful than the US Army recorded themselves.
and do this damage to an enemy. Your rounds are behaving much better than they would IRL.
Buggy DMs and how old HitPower mechanics work. You’re having the same issues from when people complained about Hisparkos. But you get the benefit of having a giant sphere of explosive fragments compared to other aircraft. Not only that. You’re complaining about your guns behaving weirdly in a super narrow BR range right where they won’t be used anymore against vehicles that have awkward DMs in this BR.
If I recall the Me-163 is basically the last German Aircraft at that BR to use 30mm cannons.
Sort’ve fuel explosions mixed with pilot snipes and engine fires. This is basically the only BR where most planes are covered in fuel tanks. Mixed with nose mounted .50s and nearly a 50% firerate increase. If you do the math, take the added firerate of all guns combined, then divide it by the firerate of an M2.
It’s basically like getting hit with 9 and a quarter M2 brownings at once, all in a singular spot.
Firstly. They should be flamethrowers. IRL that was the whole point of .50s is to BE flamethrowers. As fires were the number one cause of aircraft loss, yet gaijin has nerfed that into the ground.
At the same time, fuel tanks will sometimes just eat .50s and do nothing. I’ll need to grab the replay. But I was sawing through an Me-262 with an F-84B. Absolutely shredding him and he only went down when I focused on going for his engines. At the same time, his fueltanks were actually eating the shots and protected his pilot. Hilariously. At the altitude most fights take place in this game. If M23 behaved realistically, it should be catching jet kerosene on fire prettily handily as it was 300-400% percent better than API at achieving jet kerosene fires. The only issue IRL was that the rounds would cook off in flight if the guns got too hot which if I recall, most F-86s didn’t run M23, mixed with the high altitude fights making it difficult to light up targets with rounds that struggled to light jet kerosene even at low altitudes made jet combat with .50s IRL really miserable.
You can really tell when when some aircraft are ‘Easy to kill’ and not.
At the same time. You mentioned over performing ‘damage’ of .50s
It’s true. .50s shouldn’t be doing any ‘super structure’ fuselage damage. I pointed that out before. There should be a bunch of modules inside the aircraft to hit, but as gaijin has it. Everything is just empty space.
At the same time. Here’s 7.7 API versus .50 API-T damage to a P-47’s engine.
The damage scales back as you go further down the fuselage of an aircraft as these components have more and more health. The front cowling being the weakest structural component.
Everything is overperforming in game, but it’s a measure of “By how much?” and currently, 20mms and 30mms are hitting like trucks over performing like crazy.
You say it but you hardly show it. You keep saying it but then when we show you countless clips of .50cals doing damage, you tell us it was a lucky hit, fuel tank explosion, convergence, lucky fire.
The other countries 12.7mm have HE filler and with the very controversial realshatter system it makes them do a lot of damage, that’s cuz gaijin for whatever reason uses the same coefficient for basically all guns that use realshatter & if they remove it, these .50 cals would become useless, just like they were around 4 years ago or so, apart from the Berezin tracer belts I think. Ideally the system should have a better scale in terms of damage without compromising the consistency of the guns, but Gaijin refuses to look at the suggestions on it.
As for US .50cals they just can’t receive realshatter since they don’t have HE filler. They’d easily become the best guns in the game hands down. Not that I mind strong guns, but it would be ridiculous combined with everything they already have lol.
And I agreed with you that they should fix or buff the incendiary useless rounds it has, if you make a bugreport I will even support it, I think it’s a reasonable n welcome buff.
Yeah and here we disagree cuz I believe that gameplay should be above realism in that aspect. Ideally, I would probably prefer a more detailed damage model but since we don’t have it I prefer snap-city over spark-city. If we go by realism only, there are so many things wrong with the game…we’d have to basically start it from zero again, and even the US .50cals would be overperforming to a ridiculous degree.
Also to give you a comparison:
Here’s the damage you reported on the 109 above with .50cals:
As I said earlier, the damage on fuselage does not properly hinder the airworthiness in this game. It increases drag, yeah, but as my video shows, he flies perfectly well after getting MULTIPLE hits like those.
And IRL?
Ofc my target was a jet, not a spitfire, but it should be meaningless after getting hit by it several times. Don’t you think?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Does it look weak in your eyes? If so, I’m not talking to a wall anymore.
The problem is that making kill comps of you hitting in the right spot doesn’t prove anything. I showed it in my Typhoon video getting kills with the 7.7s. I can say 7.7s are OP and any 7.7 equipped aircraft should be moved much higher because I got all my rounds to hit where it needs to be. But as we know. There’s plenty of times where a spitfire decides to pull and just coat you with 7.7s, only to do nothing as he didn’t hit anything important.
Remove the realshatter, make any ‘high explosive’ round below 15mm behave like an incendiary round. That way you’re forced to have an even keel balanced belt of HE and AP. Keep some of the damage but remove the fragmentation.
It’ll work just fine instead of having essentially 4 20mm cannons at 3.7 that can hit 1km out and has faster fire rates than the m2 browning. The fact that “velocity” is the only major downside is insane with 1000 rounds still being an okay amount of ammuntion.
This would also fix the Swedish problem of Swedish aircraft being 2.7-3.7 tier but being shoved WAY higher just because of its guns. This also stops russian IAI from hitting unbelievably hard as well. This kills like three birds with one stone.
It’s not an issue of them being useless. It’s an issue of them not being in a great enough number to do anything. The only belt with tracers that uses incendiary ammunition is Universal. But that only has 2 Tracer rounds at the very end of the belt, and they’re not spaced well. Stealth does it better in that regard. Because gaijin realized that if you have API/I/API/I you get an even distribution of damage across the entire aircraft. With their current implementation.
If you want them to behave realistically. Then gaijin would have them act like AP rounds with basically a guaranteed chance to to cause a fire on prop planes in almost a single hit and actually able to cause fuel fires on jet aircraft.
Not only that, the round flies at 1040m/s in game. The thing is, with how belts are in game, the first round dictates the velocity of all the other rounds. So if you made an airtarget belt of M23 first in the belt. It would have that 1040m/s flight speed. The fastest belt we have is the Tracer belt that has a 899m/s velocity. So this should be over ONE HUNDRED meters a second faster.
Just to give context for how fast this is. The 20mm vulcan has a muzzle velocity of 1030m/s. So if you think leading that gun is easy while you’re in a jet shooting at opponents going over 700kmh on average. That round would be a doozy. The F-86’s F-2’s cannon is also the same speed.
Now if you fixed how round velocities in belts work. Where each round in a belt flies true to it’s actual velocity. You’ll have belts where the rounds are fast enough that you may be hitting far with some of the rounds, and short with some of the others. This is especially true with german 20mm belts.
The only time I talked about giving .50’s realshatter was when I posited it as an option between giving the U.S. incendiaries realshatter OR an airtargets belt. And I said that multiple times, Realshatter is not the best option nor balanced.
The only time I really made any affirmative statement was when Zekken put his foot in his mouth and he mentioned that he wouldn’t care how much they buffed the M23 incendiary it “Still wouldn’t be good.”
This burst I believe I held on too long for. His wing actually snapped first on burst really quickly, but because there was still rounds traveling his way, they kinda just turned him into a pod racer.
The fact that you had the dude dead to rights, dead slow, you raked your rounds across the guy, literally chainsawing him up and you still needed to get a pilot snipe to kill him was funny. If you didn’t smack his tail control you still would’ve needed another pass just for a dude you basically ventilated to ensure he was doneso.
Also, you might need to get another video editor. It’s causing issues on firefox and I had to use Brave to look at the footage. I recommend you use Kdenlive.
You are simply ignoring that 12.7mm completely took out both of his elevators at the very first impact. Much more powerful than IRL one, obviously.
BTW thanks to you, I took my chance to go back to the props after quite a while and had some pleasant healing time with F8F-1, which is armed with only 4 M2 machine guns.
Since the codex I use seems to be causing trouble, I’ll just post the youtube video directly.
Not really intended, but the last clip shows how it feels to get struck by 8 x 12.7mm. I thought I was hit by the 190 XP
Now image someone having 1.5~2 times of that firepower and complaining:
