| Gun | Designation | Caliber | Type | Velocity | Weight | Explosive | Incendiary | Additional Features | Fuze Type |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Browning AN/M2 .50cal | M8 API | 12.7mm | API | 874m/s | 42.9g | - | 0.97g Flash powder | 25.9g Hardened Steel Core | Fuzeless |
| Browning AN/M2 .50cal | M20 API-T | 12.7mm | API-T | 899m/s | 40.4g | - | 1.16g Flash powder | 23.6g Hardened Steel Core | Fuzeless |
| Browning AN/M2 .50cal | M1 Incendiary | 12.7mm | Incendiary | 911m/s | 41.3g | - | 2.2g Flash powder | 14.7g Hollow Steel Tube | Fuzeless |
| Browning AN/M2 .50cal | M23 Incendairy | 12.7mm | Incendiary | 1036m/s | 33.2g | - | 5.83g Flash powder | IM-28 Incendiary | Fuzeless |
| — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
| Ho-103 | Ma 103 | 12.7mm | HEI | 803.5m/s | 34.4g | ~0.6g RDX | 1g Flash powder | - | Striker |
| Ho-103 | Ma 102 | 12.7mm | HEI | ~800m/s | 32.2g | 1.65g PETN + RDX | 1g Flash powder | - | Fuzeless |
| — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
| Berezin UB | B-32 | 12.7mm | API | 820m/s | ~49g | - | ~1g Flash powder | - | Fuzeless |
| Berezin UB | BZT | 12.7mm | API-T | 850m/s | ~45.8g | - | ~1g Flash powder | - | Fuzeless |
| Berezin UB | BZF-46 | 12.7mm | API | 840m/s | ~46.5g | - | ~1.2g WP | WP behind steel core | Fuzeless |
| Berezin UB | MD | 12.7mm | HE | 845-860m/s | ~44g | 1.9g PETN | - | ~0.1g PETN in Fuze | Striker |
| Berezin UB | MD-46 | 12.7mm | HE | 875-890m/s | ~43g | 2.4g PETN | - | - | Air Compression |
| Berezin UB | MDZ-46 | 12.7mm | HEI | 845-860m/s | ~43.5g | 1.65g PETN | 1.2g Flash powder | - | Air Compression |
| Berezin UB | MDZ-3 | 12.7mm | HEI | 875-890m/s | ~38.5g | 1.9g PETN | 1.3g Flash powder | - | Air Compression |
| — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
| 12.7mm Breda-Safat | - | 12.7mm | API | 760m/s | ~37g | - | Probably around 1g of WP | 20.8g steel core | Fuzeless |
| 12.7mm Breda-Safat | - | 12.7mm | API-T | 760m/s | ~37.2g | - | Proabably around 1-1.5g of Thermite | 11.2g steel core | Fuzeless |
| 12.7mm Breda-Safat | S | 12.7mm | HE | 760m/s | 36g | ~0.8g PETN | - | ~0.25g PETN in Fuze | Striker |
| 12.7mm Breda-Safat | SI | 12.7mm | HEI | 760m/s | 36g | ~0.15g PETN | ~1g Flash powder w/ TNT | ~0.25g PETN in Fuze | Striker |
| 12.7mm Breda-Safat | SIT | 12.7mm | HEI-T | 760m/s | 37.5g | ~0.15g PETN | ~0.6g Flash powder w/ TNT | ~0.25g PETN in Fuze | Striker |
| — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
| MG 131 | Pz.Brd | 13mm | API (WP) | 710m/s | 38g | - | 0.86g WP | Very poor ballistics | Fuzeless |
| MG 131 | Sprgr.-L’spur | 13mm | HE-T | 750m/s | 34g | 1.17g PETN | - | 0.2g PETN in Fuze | Striker |
| MG 131 | Brsprgr.-L’spur | 13mm | HEI-T | 750m/s | 34g | 0.9g PETN | 0.3g Elektron Thermite | 0.2g PETN in Fuze | Striker |
| MG 131 | Brgr.-L’spur | 13mm | Inc-T | 770m/s | 32g | - | ~2.6g Flash powder | Sheet steel cap | Percussion Cap |
| MG 131 | Brgr.-L’spur | 13mm | Inc-T | 750m/s | 34g | - | 2.2g Flash powder | Final model | Percussion Cap |
| MG 131 | Brgr. | 13mm | Inc | 770m/s | 32g | - | ~4.0g Flash powder | Sheet steel cap | Percussion Cap |
3 Likes
wow so the japanese stuff is significantly worse.
makes sense this is 1940s japan we are talking about.
According to wiki 13.2x99 Hotchkiss on Japanese planes has less energy and velocity than .50 BMG on US stuff
But maybe the weight of the round (depending on what you use) makes it more similar in damage
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Are you sure about that? Are you really sure about that? are you REALLY REALLY REALLY SURE about that? Because 1 round barely makes it yellow.
A single Jap .50 has the capacity to do this.
Russian incendiary
Such a skill issue. Yes. I have such a skill issue that my bullets just simply do no damage while some random crapbox Ki-44 can click me once or twice and my plane turns to mush.
He survived this with no fire btw.
.50s are at the second most weakest point they’ve ever been as gaijin has removed almost any and all structural damage form the round. Unless you shoot DIRECTLY where the fuselage is at, and line up your convergence JUST PERFECTLY. Then you can do something. Some random Mig-3 can click me once or twice and his 12.7s obliterate me. Meanwhile, ANY. ANY round with even a tinkly wink of ‘explosive filler’ no matter how small hits like a truck due to ‘realshatter’.
The only time the .50 was weaker than what we have currently was when gaijin nerfed it back in 2014/2015 where it was a guaranteed firestarter. They nerfed it so hard, that API-T didn’t work anymore and you had to use GROUND TARGETS to do any reasonable damage.
Russian 12.7x108 should be slightly better than US .50 BMG but not that much better
2 Likes
using omni purpose ammo vs specialised ammo how fair and equal and totally not poor show from you at all for this comparison plus you should know by now that protection analysis is always squiffy.
you’re mad you got outplayed and are blaming the ammo.
must not have hit anything to catch fire. we all are taking minimum fuel 95% of the time its not surprising
third weakest. the Japanese .50cal is worse. and who would guess the 12mm is worse than a 20 or 30mm.
nose mounted, much easier to smack your pilot or fuselage fuel tank.
russian 12.7 is also a smidge better than .50 browning
this is a cope bost bro
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First of all, you’re trolling right now.
He didn’t win. I still killed him on the second pass. But the fact this burst he survived is insane with no fire.
I also did hit something important.
His entire fuel tank. I literally peppered the entire wing.
didn’t argue that .50 is stronger than 20mm. You put those words in my mouth. Not me. My issue is that there are nations that have the exact same caliber as U.S. .50s but they are MASSIVELY stronger than the U.S. .50s. In fact you should scroll up and actually read a little bit what I said before.
Not cope. I showed how much stronger their 12.7mm is. It can blacken a wing in one shot.
U.S. .50s can’t copy that damage.
if the 12.7x108 is really doing that much more damage then it seems like its acting more like 14.5mm than 12.7mm
and if Japanese/French 12.7 is actually doing more damage, it should be the other way around
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It’s because gaijin considers anything with ‘explosive filler’ as insanely strong for no reason. Mixed with wet paper DMs you end up with aircraft that just break apart with ease.
Thing is is that most of U.S. has AP so it does very little damage to wing structure and because gaijin doesn’t even consider regular incendiary filler to actually have any kind of detonation effect. It just smacks the skin doing no damage. You in essence have a completely useless piece of ammunition. Compound this that the fixed ‘real shatter’ has made explosive weapons more powerful, far too powerful even. You wind up with MGs with barely enough explosive filler to rub between your fingers capable of ripping wings off in 2 shots. while the U.S. you have to grind them down or strike the fuselage.
Problem is there’s people who think this is realistic. But if that was the case, the U.S. would do everything possible to swap to 20mm during the war, logistics be damned, their opponents weapons are way better. or would’ve slipped HE filler in their bullets.
But gaijin admits this is due to gameplay purposes, but you now have insanely strong damaging machine guns while U.S. machine guns are missing any kind of damage.
My point is that everyone can kill eachother with ease. Everyone has super strong guns that can rip someone apart or generally severely cripple with one hit.
The U.S. on the other hand has to fire at a specific convergence and at a specific target to cause any damage while fires are entirely based on RNG.
My point is. If everyone’s guns are broken. Why aren’t mine?
realistic for Japanese planes lol. .30 cal should mess them up badly, let alone .50 BMG
I guarantee that a B-17 wing is getting hit by more than two 20mms before coming off. Might be two visible, but that means probably at least 6-8 actually hit, and that’s on the low end.
1 Like
nope
why are you whining then? you still won. Ive not killed things with 20mm on the first pass but then got the on the second. that’s normal.
I can almost guarantee you hit the EMPTY fuel tank
people tank minimum fuel for less weight and lower chance of a fire. also the final tank in in the fuselage, self sealing too
its how you’re acting
blatantly wrong
the russian 12.7mm is better because they actually are
Japanese 12,7 is objectively worse
situation, point of hit, which shell and which airframe.
I’ve been shot down by a single American .50 to a wing a lot. i know that it can as I’m a player that’s actually been on the receiving end of all of the relevant cartridges and taken note
so you know how the game works. use a belt with HE if you want a HE shell. the little burning boi isn’t the explody boi.
Unironically the solid shot/APDS argument.
I have taken a B-17s wing off with a single 20mm a few times tbh.
To be honest, I don’t have much occasion to shoot at them, I just see a lot of people confuse visible rounds for all rounds.
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You’re right it’s not realistic. But the question is. How are you going to change it? Aircraft airframes during the war were insanely lopsided. A single Bf-109 going to engage a B-17 would be suicidal, and currently, bombers have no place in the game so you’ll find issues with them just gun shipping.
If you went with realistic damage, you’ll find people dreading trying to fight different aircraft because they’re just plain hard to shoot down mixed with their performance and so on.
Then with the current game structure you’ll run into issues at which point you’re asking gaijin to overhaul the game, which they won’t do. Because it’s been the same since 2013.
So the way they’re doing it is best in their eyes with the current per view that they don’t have to shake things up too much. Bro. They’re grinding their teeth when it comes to people’s demands of 8v8 matches for top-tier.
I don’t see how giving incendiary a slight high explosive effect would honestly change much to the game besides actually make it easier to use U.S. aircraft, most of which don’t even fit how gaijin designed the game.
must confess i do go into gound battles with the direct intention of just bullying CAS bombers by literally firing a single hispano shot and deleting a wing. Gotten better at it than I often like to admit.
Ive even one tapped nuke bombers on many occasions by laying in wait above the path to the battlefield in a mk24 spit as soon as I heard sirens. Scummy I know but its very effective
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Breda safat is once more forgotten and left behind :c
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If you went with realistic damage, you’ll find people dreading trying to fight different aircraft because they’re just plain hard to shoot down mixed with their performance and so on.
Not really. This has been discussed a lot in the past, but the primary thing causing planes to die faster in-game is mouse aiming, not the durability of damage models. Bombers really weren’t that survivable in real life, they took massive casualties when they sortied, and it was lucky when a solid strafe didn’t destroy one. That’s without the extra time on target and accuracy you get in-game.
Apply that to fighters, and you’re going to end up with things dying about as quickly as they do now. Storied of P-47s surviving 20 minutes of being shot stop applying when you have that same P-47 taking actual HE cannon fire in the middle of a high-G turn.
As I said earlier in the discussion, if you actually want .50 cals to do better, then making the maps larger and the matches longer is the way to do it. As well as probably making radiator damage kill an engine faster on most planes (because a lot of air cooled planes are genuinely resistant to cooling damage).
If you want to add an explosive effect to API rounds, then you should be ready for a buffed incendiary effect in HEI rounds (which I know, at least in the minengeschoss rounds, is lacking compared to real life; they removed some of the HE filler in-game but never added in the incendiary that should have replaced it).
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Wait they removed HE from the shell which was made legend by its HE?
To my knowledge, they were actually right to do so. They removed a few grams of HE from the MG 151 minengeschoss, because in real life those few extra grams were incendiary, not HE. They just never actually added the incendiary in. This was, if I remember right, caused by someone making a report that MG 151 minengeschoss was classed as HEI, not HE.
EDIT: There’s a chance this is outdated information, but I think it’s still accurate.
1 Like