I don’t play GRB
Your statistics do not say the same
Looks like AP rounds and not HEI… And if HEI they likely didn´t explode coz they didn´t hit any harder structural parts ecpect the thin outer shell of the Spit. You need some impactforce to trigger the explosive to go boom.
Man some people really have vivid imaginiations 😄
Here’s the other side of the plane:
Pressure blow open that tail hatch, deformed some panels and shell fragments are all over the place.
Wow! That´s an verry impressive picture! And it´s what i see in WT when I hit a Spitfires tail wiith 20 to 50 20mm rounds 80 out of 100 times…
But if i get hit with a 0.01 second burst of 12.7mm I loose my tail 4 out of 10 times and both of my wings in the other 5 out of 10 times.
You showed a picture of a 1 of 1000 planes… This guy was lucky as hell! Thats why they pointed it out. The story behind this picture is how lucky he is, not how week the 20mm are, coz they werent.
EDIT:
But tbh, it doesn´t look like 20mm entrance holes at all. I would say, the frist picture shows the exit holes of tumbling rounds. But they also could be entering holes of tumbling rounds that went through a Bomber, the Spit tried to protect and than the Spit got hit by these rounds.
On the other side, you can see exiting holes of some sort of shrapnels. This could be shrapnels of the spitfires frame itselfe.
The blown open hatch and the panel is because of the energy tranfer from the bullet itselfe to the plane.
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It’s simply how weak 20mm was in real life compared to ingame. The difference between 20mm HE and 30mm HE is massive.
Also no, that image wasn’t how “this guy was lucky as hell”, it was testing done by the British to determine the effectiveness of 30mm mineshells.
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I literally only have a single tank unlocked past reserve tier for the US TT.
Now can we please stop derailing the thread?
It makes perfect sense. There’s this document from British trials testing explosive and explosive-incendiary charges inside a Spitfires wing to determine the blast effectivness of incendiary filler.
Reducing the amount of filler by 1/5 already decreased the damage potential by twice as much.
So the blast damage increases exponentially with the amount of filler.
A 20mm can’t “overpressure” the tail section of a Spitfire so it only deals low structural damage and fragmentation, while the 30mm contains enough explosive to blow the tail appart.
The larger the aircraft, the more explosive is needed to cause fatal damage.
From the same logic: If a plane increases in size by 1/5 it will also receive 2/5 less damage.
So from a structural point, 20mm are nothing but angry bee’s against a four-engined bomber.
Germany didn’t develop 20mm or 30mm Incendiary rounds in late 1942 to mid 1943 for fun, just so that War Thunder can put them in the default belt and make them deal laughable damage against any target.
AP, API and HE rounds are functionally the only working rounds in the game.
And with working I mean they are so effective that taking other rounds makes no sense.
HE > API > AP
HE, regardless of caliber can blow planes appart
API can set planes on fire, from any angle or range
While pilots can get survive multiple .50cal hits through armor plates or explosive shells near them.
Ok… And now show us, where the .50 can rip off tails and wings in a short single burst…
I couldn´t find a single document where the .50 is that much op like it is in WT…
EDIT:
The pictures you showed were stationary tests on the grond with zero structural load on the plane.
I saw videos where a FW 190 killed 5 or 6 bombers in a row. all of them with a short burst of 20mm…
I never saw that with .50´s…
EDIT2:
So it looks like, u try to get easy kills. You don´t like to do much for it but point ur nose on a target for less than a second and switch to the next target to do the same. You should try to position yourselfe better to get a better shot on the target.
I can show u, if u want, just PN me.
All guns are OP, that makes .50cals not OP in comparison.
They should be a lot less effective, but so should all types of explosive rounds.
At the same time nothing makes sense. A Pilot can survive direct hits from 12.7mm HE rounds, just because realShatter fragments might not hit him enough but are directed into other directions:
These are the two extremes. In general the Pilot will be orange or red. But of course this spectrum shouldn’t exist in the first place.
Hmm, pilot snipes were not much to see back in those days… I wonder why. Ah, yes, there was no easy mouseaim back than.
So no… It´s fine, that there are not too much pilotkills atm.
I really cant understand what you are complaining about. You get late war planes to fight middle and early war planes. You have like about “20” guns on ur planes… (I know it is a bit less than 20 but in comparison to my two 7.62 and one 20mm, it feels like you fire with 100 guns)
And… you have so much more ammunition. You are able to spam like hell…
Like I said. Try to position yourselfe better. Don´t fly too much on the deck, get some alt and pick your targets wisely.
A 109 is hard to hit from behind. It´s a small plane. So if u try to kill it from it´s 6, it will take some time.
And I’m not sure what you are trying to argue here.
Honestly I’m not really interested in a disussion with you.
I care for historically accuracy and how it translates into the game, while in WT a lot of things don’t make sense.
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I think this is because of the instructor.
Damage in air rb does not really matter until you rip a control/significant lifting surface off. Some planes show pertormance issues like the zeros for even partial damage but even then, the instructor compensates incredibly well.
Compare to flying without the instructor where even an orange wing can throw off your stall limit due to one wing having much less lift. You can survive but be far less able to defend yourself at the same skill level.
So given instructor is kind of WT’s main selling point due to accessibility, balancing around doing damage that works even with a magical autopilot keeping you in the air is likely a goal
They still deal far too much damage. a single 20mm HE ripping off a wing/tail of a large bomber is dumb. Even German unguided rockets often blew large hole in B-17s without any severe damage.
I can´t say that my Mineshells (Minengeshoss), the most powerfull 20mm ever build, can do that.
I never ripped off the wing or tail of a bomber with a single 20mm Minengescchoss. I really like to hunt bombers. So I do it pretty often. What I see is that way too many times, you get 1 shoted by a bomber, even if u pass him with 700 km/h annd he is slow…
The next thing… They are way to nible. They dogfight fiighters for fun… That never happened in War…
I’ve seen it happen plenty of times, even with hispanos. The difference in damage models between massive bombers and small fighters in Warthunder is miniscule.
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I would like to see more rigid bombers. But without 3rd person in sim, and nerfed guners. You have to do some work to kill a bomber, or, position yourself good enough to kill it with 1 burst of 20mm. The FW 190 was able to do that. But a bomber with the most kills on the battlefiield never existed…
I just was in an battle. And our team got 1 tapped by a Mustag MK 1… That shouldn´t be possible. I left the match. Coz it has nothing to do with good enjoyeble fights, where even the guy that got shot down had his fun…
So no… .50 deserve a hughe nerf, not a buff…
50s do not need any sort of nerf. That is silly talk. They’re barely adequate as is and a laughable joke compared to what they SHOULD be.
So why do you think, they had to put so many of them, including a hughe amount of ammo, on these planes?
It´s an engeneers nightmare to put guns on a plane. They are heavy and they reduce the planes performance.
The needed to put so many guns on these planes coz the litterally were bad. Simple, right?
The 109 has 3 guns and there were many 109 aces.
So yes. the .50 need to be nerfed.
I’m sorry but you sound ridiculous.
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