Yet the US 50cal may be one of the most far-reaching and easy-to-use aircraft MG in the game, the damage outputted by this weapon may have the largest variation in the game. You may either one-shot fire, or spend 1000 rnds on a S/E fighter, trade all of your ammo and energy just for a single target.
Another thing is that most people don’t realize that the performance of US 50cals are trade-off by the aircraft performance. The entire system of 6x50cal + 2400 rnd ammo weighs 480kg, in comparison, Japanese 4x20mm with 800rnd only weighs 350kg. Though the game only counts projectile weight of 90kg for 2400rnd of 50cal, the dead weight of the entire system was written in the fm file since Gaijin calculated aircraft weight by subtracting fuel weight from the gross weight.
Also, the easy-to-use property of US 50cal is further hindered by the unusually large value of compression loss and inertia of the US prop control property. Planes such as F6F and P47 were assigned over 50000 inertia value on the roll axis. (Which is even much higher than Japanese 6-ton twin-engine fighter J5N and torpedo bombers like B5N and B6N) Other planes such as P-51, F4U, and F8F all got unusually large rudder compression ratios, either being assigned a very low compression speed or with a very large compression coefficient. All of these decreased the nose-authority of the US 50cal carrierIn tracking a sustained lead on target to ensure a sufficient amount of hit to bring down a target. If such a weapon setting has been given to planes with extremely good nose authority, say BF109, would be a much more deadly aircraft weapon loadout.( One reason many people complain the over-performing 6x50cals on F80 and F86).
Haha I’ve tried to increase the dispersion of 50cals in il21946 and found them to be much more effective. However, the damage model in 1946 relies on random event, the scatter gun works better in that scenario. In WarThunder, the damage model is more of a bunch of hit points, so I think less dispersion will help more. Plus removing weapon upgrade will likely to jam your guns while trying to spray people. I suspect that late 50cals hit harder mainly because they have less dispersion and random shotFreq, considering that the onHitChanceFire of M20 was nerfed down to 10, same as the M8 API and every other API round in the similar caliber.
That almost ended poorly…
But yes, most 20mm-armed planes also have very limited ammo capacities, so you end up getting much closer than you otherwise would if using 6 or 8 .50cals.
Earlier I played a match in the 109 E-7 and I also needed several hits from 20mm wing guns to get the desired “wings snapping off” result. Most of the time they hit and did damage but my enemy somehow did not spontaneously combust.
Here’s another image. Figure 25
The exact same testing jig was used since 1940. The large plume matches the initial image I showed.
“in my dreams” Nah. That’s what M1 actually looked like
Considering the largest plume lines up. I’m %99 sure this is what M1 had the capacity of doing inside a plane.
The bullet realistically should also detonate striking something hard. Similarly there is some effect with the gas tank.
Funny part is. The large plume is actually somehwat similar in size to the plumes we see in gun-cam footage (Not counting the plume that’s inside the aircraft), and going by the DTIC document, there should be at least some TNT equivalency to the rounds, especially if 4-5 rounds hit on thin airframes Don’t forget that there is a spacer as well and you can see it quickly spread.
You can not see anything in that image.
What you posted before was definitely from a He 111 fuel tank replica set-up.
Even though I would imagine they would shoot them with .50cals, whats odd in the image you posted was that the round you showed only detonated on the third dural plate.
But they probably also shot them with 20mm rounds.
Nevermind, you are actually right.
But remember it’s just a short flash of fire.
It definitely has some blast power and can ignite fuel from fuel leaks and could cause more catastrophic damage under the right circumstances.
But it’s not wonder weapon.
There’s a reason why they switched to 100% API
thats not the point of this thread though
the thread exists because currently in game the US .50 incendiary rounds do not preform anywhere remotely like they do irl causing US 0.50s to be much less consistent than other aircraft guns relying on pilot snipe or other lucky shots
The incendiary rounds don’t perform like real life but API also doesn’t. Except that API overperforming makes completely up for Incendiary underperforming.
API can fly through the entire air frame and set fuel or engines on fire.
And wings getting cut off happens a lot more frequently too, since spars have such a basic damage model.
Likewise AP can penetrate armor it couldn’t in real life because there’s no bullet tumbling and plane armor isn’t made from high hardness armor in WT.
That’s exactly what’s .50cal API is supposed to do.
It’s a bullet. It’s supposed to kill or wound a pilot, damage engine and cooling system, cause fuel leaks and ignite it.
The entire point of US planes having 6-8 .50cals is because more guns are needed to make up for the lack of killing power of a single round.
And 6 .50cals will easily shoot down a fighter just like two 20mm cannons.
Both in RL and in WT.
That’s actually not why the US planes had their compression nerfed, they were nerfed because it’s realistic. The key thing is that there is A LOT more data on US props than most other props in existence, so the finite limits of the aircraft are known. Other nations’ props have less data on them (generally), so they can’t be nerfed as easily. Even when there is data Gaijin sometimes chooses to ignore it (Japanese planes not compressing at high speeds despite data saying they should, the bug report is like 7 years old at this point).
It’s also kind of weird that it seems like you’re defending the .50 cal’s position in game when you’ve pointed out that they do worse damage overall, do less consistent damage overall, and are on airframes that are more heavily restricted. All for what? They’re slightly easier to aim, but have to be much more precise in their shots to do anything?
That’s what it’s supposed to do, except the setting the fire part is inconsistent.
More consistent as compared to what? Pure ball .50 cal ammo? Anything with HE filler is much, much better at cutting off wings.
Why is ok for .50 cals to have to hit very specific modules, but it’s ok for HE filler aircraft to be able to hit anything and win (if they aren’t unlucky)?
The vast majority of the time, 2x 12.7mms with HE will do more damage than 8x .50 cals will with only incendiary - let alone 20mm cannons or higher.
Also the new values based on an RE factor range of 0.25-0.36 are:
M8 API and M30 API-T (0.97g for both):
- Worst case: 0.97*0.25 = 0.2425g TNTeq
- Mid case: 0.97*0.305 = 0.29585g TNTeq
- Best case: 0.97*0.36 = 0.3492g TNTeq
M1 I (2.2g):
- Worst case: 2.2*0.25 = 0.55g TNTeq
- Mid case: 2.2*0.305 = 0.671g TNTeq
- Best case: 2.2*0.36 = 0.792g TNTeq
M23 I (5.8g):
- Worst case: 5.8*0.25 = 1.45g TNTeq
- Mid case: 5.8*0.305 = 1.769g TNTeq
- Best case: 5.8*0.36 = 2.088g TNTeq
Meanwhile for the Japanese 12.7mm round: (PETN’s RE factor is 1.66)
- 0.6*1.66 = 0.996g TNTeq
Because you at least 3x as many chances to hit as with a pair of 20mms, and with Brownings if one round hits a place you are probably hitting the same place with at least one more due to RoF and velocity
This is just flat out factually incorrect. But you wouldn’t know since you havent actually FLOWN a plane with .50 HEF rounds.
I have earned two free Ace crews for the Ki-43-1. I wish this was true.
The tanks were self-sealing fuel tanks, and were designed via the exact specification from captured british design plans
My point was not to show that M1 is a wonder weapon. But that there is considerable damage that can take place. Especially when late-war belts consist of M23, and that had over double the filler and it was more reactive.
But the thing is. API in-game doesn’t do structural damage. unless you get lucky with spars or you hit convergence. and have all your rounds hit on a specific segment.
Back to Japanese .50s
I Purposely aimed for the wings. Not even a BURST of Japanese .50s hit his wing and instantly I obliterated his wing. I slowed down and even counted.
Another example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG3keUV54AQ
A P-51C. Again, he wasn’t damaged at all. AND STILL! I blew his wing off with literally only 2 rounds!
Funny part is? The enemy team actually climbed and met with the Bf-109s and Yaks at Co-altitudes. But then the fights all went low. I was hit by a P-63’s .50s but again. I just shrugged it off.
Most aircraft with 20mms have four, not two, and most 20mms (really all) will do much more than 3x the damage of a .50 cal bullet.
Except I’ve flown against planes with them, and they consistently do more damage to me or to other players around me than I do to them (unless I get a pilot snipe, but they can also do that).
You closed to within 150m while getting Hit after Hit, until you finally did some meaningful damage.
I struck his left wing once, his elevator once, and then I swap to the other side and hit him and blew his wing off with a basically no burst to that area. Funny part too. Since it’s just two guns. You can actually count my rounds firing off with the video. just hit pause and go by the , and . keys and you can go frame by frame.
That’s a similar range to what Zekken was showing in a lot (if not most) of the kills in his videos
I use mouse aim
Must’ve been someone else lol
Prolly mine, 150-450 is the ranges the Idaho and wingaling videos engage at.